No announcement yet.

Grandmaster Thieves

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Grandmaster Thieves

    There is no reward for taking lift, slice, grab, palm, handoff, receive, and coinsharpening past the rank for 1 success... in the current system.

    according to my trial tests, because no one would answer me last I asked.

    Anyways... Now it's in the forums and I'm glad.

    That aside, I think Pickpocketing needs to add these suggestions of mine, to make training all these skills I listed above, to grandmaster worth while.

    1stly, Coin sharpening has become completely obsolete because now with the ability to search passive targets, you can find what they're palming, and a sharpened denar gets you more jail time (though, you can use pentaks I suppose)

    But regarding Coin sharpening and Palming and taking them to grandmaster, here are my thoughts.

    1) Palming : the higher you take it, the better you are at hiding it, so that when a constable searches you, he might not find it in your hand, he may have to search you several times before finding it.... this also will allow for some people to bring palm-able objects into jail even, at rank 50+ or something like that.

    2) Coin sharpening. A knife can be very obvious. It's big, and shiny.... it will draw attention to you while lifting with it in a crowd for sure. Why is that guy carrying a dagger? However, a little coin is not very noticeable, neither is a little arrowhead, but with coin sharpening, at grandmaster, it should at least give a success drop to all slicing skills, by +10 or +15 better success, or something like that, and large cutting tools like knives, ought to have a -15 success to lifts. An arrowhead, might just sit at +/- 0. (maybe coins sharpened by someone rank 30 = + 7, rank 71 + 10, rank 100 +15 to lift ) Those coins would also be desired by newbie thieves, and they would seek out high level thieves to obtain them.

    3) Handoff) At high ranks such as Grandmaster, at the moment in time you're handing off (before the person has received) when another player looks at you... You dont seem to be carrying anything, perhaps because, you have it behind your back, or under your arm, or in your cloak, and you handoff last minute, right as the person receives it, in a stealthy way.
    I don't know, but if the mechanics don't work this way, then also change to allow handing off to people hidden in the room... If you're able to write their name, then obviously you know they're in there by planning before hand... also let hidden characters receive handoffs. ( i haven't tested this )

    4) Receive (If it doesn't already work in conjunction with Stow, it ought to have a chance to automatically stow when you receive.) 2ndly, it ought to drop in roundtime, at grandmaster, by at least a second, if not more. However, if someone looks at you they'll see you have the item. Or, keep the round time, and give it the same effect as handoff, and let you receive it, and hide it under your arm, or behind your back, out of sight of the view of the person missing it, looking around... Perhaps # of people pulled out of the crowd, or players in a pace, could reduce your ability to hold it unseen.

    5) Slice at Grandmaster, you steal silently everytime.... however, you still fade at 91+ (if you dont like steal silently everytime, then allow for fading more often, with lower roll oversuccess to fade...then )

    6) Cut and lift , at ranks of 50-200 you are fading at lower and lower roll over success.

    7) Grab, autofades at rank 1-100 if roll over 91+ ; but begins to stun for 5seconds after rank 100.... you're completely shocked, by the sudden yank out of your hands... stunning you for (enough time for a thief to fade and go to the next pace)


    Honestly, Palm should definitely make it to where you can be searched several times, before finding your palmed item... i think that's probably the best idea of them all

    But there's no point to play a master thief, because there's no benefits... but i would like there to be.

    I personally like my own ideas.
    Last edited by yezrah7; 01-24-2018, 07:02 PM.

  • #2
    You just blew my mind! Nice Creative Ideas!
    I really like the coin sharpening idea like locksmiths seeking a silver lockpick for the lower level charachters!


    • #3
      Yeah I agree with Cecil, the certainly are very reasonable suggestions.

      I think the slice one is on the money, its really annoying having max stats and a high rank and it being up to chance weather or not I manage to slice a sack. Often the reward does not match the risk as sacks often available for slicing are full of junk.
      Tale responds from afar, "Decided to give out t-shirts to all the people I murder. Three so far. This way you can all say, "Tale murdered me! .....and all I got was this stupid t-shirt!!""


      • #4
        Originally posted by yezrah7 View Post

        1) Palming : This already somewhat works. Try fooling around with quick grabbing an object a friend palmed and you'll see what I mean

        2) Coin sharpening. I don't know why this would matter. Most people are good thieves with a couple of weeks worth of scripting or 10 hours of actually lifting pouches.

        3) Handoff There is a reason to take handoff higher. Try actually testing this with more than one object and not just using one result you came up with as gospel.

        4) Receive See above

        5) Slice Shame the drops don't go away with ranks, or perhaps with ranks of slice and quick grab (or some other fitting skill). Shame the fade chance doesn't increase when you actually know fade and continue until you're actually good at fading.

        6) Cut and lift This move, like a lot of PP stuff, could benefit from the "real" success going below 1 so that if you're stupid skilled you essentially can't roll below a 91.

        7) Grab, You should train this move up some. It's worth it, even if you're just being a jerk stealing lanterns from your buddy.
        Honestly this skill set has a pretty high ceiling in its current form but hardly anyone knows how to actually use it to their benefit. It's like anything else though. As soon as somebody gets cute and talks or robs the wrong person then it will get nerfed into oblivion to the point that even stealing from NPCs sucks. 95% of the people who know how to pickpocket either never use the moves or just run traders/patricians/merchants/whatever until they can afford all of their fancy stuff. Drastic changes to how things work would be awesome, but in the end the only people who would benefit are those of us who actually took time to figure out how to rob you blind with current mechanics after a few weeks of plotting and scheming.


        • #5
          Anyone know how watcher's sense works? is it worth taking to grandmaster to catch thieves sneaking around you?

          Like, if two characters have avg in every stat, and one is 20 in sneak, the other is 30 in watcher's sense..

          Do you have a chance to catch them sneaking? I have no idea how this skill works... never tested it and won't be able to for a long time, unless the beta testing room opens back up and allows non combat skills in... if they weren't already i didn't notice them last time.

          does it just take your perception stat to outstanding in regard to seeing sneakers?
          Last edited by yezrah7; 01-24-2018, 03:26 AM.


          • #6
            All these ideas along with many others, and all with variations have been submitted over the years and I've compiled a few common-sense updates for the skillset along similar lines. I just haven't had time to number-crunch all the math (crowd commotion, levels of awareness, skill level, roll, lighting, blah blah, lots of math goes into this stuff - more than most realize), test, and implement most of them. I took the time to hammer out some of the easily-implemented stuff like 'more echoes based on rolls instead of the same 4' and such, so some of it is already in my 'current work notes' that is always up on my desktop. Adding sharpened coin quality that reflects in the echo when making them, and when looking at them, for example, is pretty straight-forward and easily popped in. Some of the more detailed mechanical changes will need to be back-burnered until I'm in good coding groove so I don't bork the math, though.
            Game Master Tale
            Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad. Creativity is putting tomatoes in a fruit salad to make mango salsa. Philosophy is wondering if that means ketchup is actually a smoothie. Common Sense is knowing that no, ketchup is not a smoothie.


            • #7
              Could someone send me a link to the Minor changes, that have recently happened with PP?

              I can't find the forum.

              It wont be long until I find a thread about it, because...

              the effects that it had, I think every pickpocket is going to be asking soon.


              • #8
                Staff News - Minor Changes
                Game Master Tale
                Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad. Creativity is putting tomatoes in a fruit salad to make mango salsa. Philosophy is wondering if that means ketchup is actually a smoothie. Common Sense is knowing that no, ketchup is not a smoothie.


                • #9
                  Receive handoff should be actionable before even an attempt to handoff is made. This allows the following possibility:

                  Thief A is hiding, Thief B just sliced a pouch and the patrician started yelling for a constable. Thief A, while hiding, can initiate an open handoff by "receive from <ThiefB>". Thief B gets a silent prompt that Thief A looks to be waiting for a handoff, then types "handoff pouch to Thief A", which is only possible due to Thief A initiating (otherwise he wouldn't see him). Mechanically, the handoff wouldn't rely on people available in the room and instead would receive the character variable from the receive action initiated on them.

                  This would work the same if Thief A isn't hiding, but the main point of the above is that it should allow handoffs to hidden accomplices.

                  Also palm should work as a generalized attempt to hide anything, including stolen pouches or even knives or dirks so that when you walk away, you have a chance to show as "Thief A walks way to the west" instead of "Thief A walks away to the west carrying a retalq gladius". Of course perception checks might reveal "Thief A walks away to the west, obviously attempting to hide a retalq gladius."

                  At grandmaster, slice should no longer drop the item ever.... don't care if it's never completely silent, but a grandmaster simply wouldn't be dropping things unless it weighs 100 pounds and they didn't expect it.

                  Perhaps a command like coinlisten for checking weight? "containercheck Parlin's sack" -> "Parlin's sack seems to be practically empty" or "Parlin's sack is sagging heavily and would likely be difficult for you to carry"


                  • #10
                    I'm just glad we made it harder for newer characters to get anywhere. It hasn't worked for the last 20+ years or anything. Oh well, more coin for me
                    TRproclaim power!

                    Originally posted by Armataan
                    Did I just get told Synodia was a better RPed character than Culexus?
                    Originally posted by Bucaria
                    The player of Synodia should be made a GM, he seems to have no favorites and hates everyone equally.


                    • #11
                      I regret I complained about Pickpocketing. I really hate the change that has happened. For one reason, I once had 1 success using cut and lift, and now i have 82 success.... in the same place, wearing no load to speak of....

                      My thief is a night owl, and at night with rank 38/37 slice I have 7 success.

                      at the day time I have 51 success...

                      I was rank 32/31 slice, tested and I had 9 success, then i went to 38/37 and i went down only 2 success, now I have 7 success at night.

                      It has become impossible for me to steal in the day time, I dont think taking slice to grandmaster will allow me to lose 51+ success.

                      Please revert back to the old system.

                      I never asked for added detriments or making pickpocketing harder so you get caught and jailed more often....

                      I was asking for added beneficial reasons to go past rank 20, not for detriments if you dont.

                      Like, having 1 success at rank 20 was fine.... I just wanted a reason to go to 40, 60, or 100, like you auto-fade after slicing more often.... or something like that.

                      I don't think any player who has a thief, has had a thief, or will make a thief.... is going to enjoy palming an extra RL month, just to be able to get down to 1 success...

                      sorry i lied on my post about my official, final complaint.

                      But please explain to me how in the colosseum with the best possible crowd size that can be found in game,, my success went from 1 to 82.... wearing no load to speak of...

                      the explanations in the minor changes section don't really explain that to me.
                      Last edited by yezrah7; 01-29-2018, 09:33 PM.


                      • #12
                        Worse than all this, my character just had his perception go down a word level from exceptional to great...

                        if there's been a nerf on what I think ther'es been a nerf on...
                        I'm likely going to delete, and start a new character with better traits.

                        These changes are effecting my personal world too much...
                        I'm starting to feel like i'm being personally attacked...

                        what did I do? I will repent.

                        Please....Turn the wrath of the Game Gods away from me....
                        Last edited by yezrah7; 01-29-2018, 10:33 PM.


                        • #13
                          I just test exactly where you said, I had a 1 success at ranks 75/20 in slice.

                          Are you claiming that perception is the key trait in slicing success? I believe dexterity plays a much bigger role.
                          Tale responds from afar, "Decided to give out t-shirts to all the people I murder. Three so far. This way you can all say, "Tale murdered me! .....and all I got was this stupid t-shirt!!""


                          • #14


                            • #15
                              "Be Careful what you wish for, you just might get it."

                              Congratulations Yezrah7, you got exactly what you wished for, and now you regret it. Maybe this will encourage you to stop being a dink, and report bugs, instead of making outrageous demands of a staff that isn't paid.