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  • Thoughts on New Veteran Packages

    Welcome back Scolve, and thanks for posting re: the new veteran packages. (And for fixing the message office at the drop of a hat yesterday.)

    TLDR: Bad deals. Get a @chop or wait for half off.

    While it's nifty that there are higher level packages now, the RP cost seems to be super unattainable, and absolutely not worthwhile for most subscribers. I understand the higher tier packages are largely intended for "comping" @chopped old characters, but still, the RP-cost scaling seems so un-worthwhile that I wonder if some other use for the "credits" could be offered? Here's the breakdown:

    .
    Cost (RPs) GSP Credits Wealth Stats Extras
    1. 1,000 250 10 5t 10 None
    2. 2,000 500 20 10t 15 None
    3. 3,000 750 30 15t 20 None
    4. 4,000 1000 40 20t 25 Makeover
    5. 8,000 1500 80 40t 30 Makeover
    6. 10,000 2000 100 50t 50 Makeover + Custom Item
    7. 12,500 2500 125 60t 50 Makeover + 2 Custom Items
    8. 15,000 3000 150 70t 60 Makeover + 2 Custom Items
    9. 17,500 3500 175 80t 70 Makeover + 2 Custom Items
    10. 20,000 4000 200 90t 80 Makeover + 2 Custom Items
    .

    Personally, I am finding anything above a T4 package to be of decreasing value, considering the effort/expense/slow earn rate of RPs. Let's face it - combat oriented players grind out RPs mainly for stat upgrades.

    The value of GSP (only 50 of which you can "save" and exit vet-char gen with) is negligible above a certain amount (valuable in the beginning of a char-gen build, for attaining new and difficult skills), given that 750 SP are easily earned within the first week of a character's initial creation, and 250 SP comes easily week after week thereafter.

    Even the highest package, Tier 10, offers only 4000 GSP = approximately 13-16 weeks of basic cycle SP. By comparison, 20,000 role-points would take the average basic subscriber 10,000 hours of play to earn. A generous assumption of about 10-20 hours a week of play, and that's about 4-5 years of saving up every RP.

    Credits are a tricky thing to valuate in terms of RPs. 25 credits is a hooded cloak. Should we consider 25 worth almost the equivalent of a Custom Item (2,000 rps for premium subscribers)? There's also often squamatas and other "rare" gear, but since the vendor stock revolves, they're not a sure thing.

    Assuming there is negligible value in the GSP, the value of each package in RPs organically spent on your character would be:
    • - Package 1 (1,000 rps cost.) A value of 1,000 RPs in stat upgrades alone, and the extras are a bonus. Not enough credits to get anything "good," unless there's nice custom items in the vet-char-gen cases. Good deal.
    • - Package 2. (2,000 rps cost.) A value of 1,500 RPs in stat upgrades, some extras to play with to make starting out a little more comfortable. OK deal.
    • - Package 3. (3,000 rps cost.) A value of 2,000 RPs in stat upgrades. Enough credits for a faceplate/hood/nice weapon/whatever. Some extras to play with. Nice deal.
    • - Package 4. (4,000 rps cost.) A value of 2,500 rps in stat upgrades. A 1,000 rps makeover. Enough credits for a faceplate/hoods/nice weapons/whatever. Chunk of change and GSP to remove a fat chunk of starting out difficulty. Best deal.
    • - Package 5. (8,000 rps cost.) A value of 3,000 rps in stat upgrades. A 1,000 rps makeover. Enough credits for 3 faceplates/hoods/nice weapons/whatever. Chunk of stuff to play with. OK deal.
    • - Package 6. (10,000 rps cost.) A value of 4,000 rps in stat upgrades. A 1,000 rps makeover. Enough credits for 3-4 faceplates/hoods/nice weapons/whatever. 2,000 rps value for a custom item. Chunk of stuff to play with. OK deal, but seems to be decreasing, unless I really like bronze faceplates, hoods and retalq weapon. I wouldn't buy one of these unless it were half off, or I got one for a @chop comp.
    • - Package 7. (12,500 rps cost.) A value of 5,000 rps in stat upgrades. A 1,000 rps makeover. Enough credits for 4-5 faceplates/hoods/nice weapons/whatever. 4,000 rps value for custom items. Same thoughts as above.
    • - Package 8...9...
    • - Package 10. (20,000 rps cost.) A value of 8,000 rps in stat upgrades. A 1,000 rps makeover. Enough credits for 8-10 faceplates/hoods/nice weapons. 4,000 rps value for custom items. Chunk of stuff to play with. How much do you really like basic hoods and bronze plates?
    The Tier 10 package costs 20,000 RPs, or about 4-5 years of playing 10-20 hours a week for a value of about 13,000 of RPs if you were to spend it "naturally" - plus upwards of 16 cycles of SP in the form GSP, 90t, and enough hoods for every one of Lyke's girlfriends (dead or alive.)

    Or, I could use 20,000 RPs for a T4 package, and have 16,000 RPS left to inject into stats to make her an inhuman monster beast, version 2.0.

    Er... Iuno. I like the effort put into making new character packages available, it's just that I don't think any of them are a "good deal" in terms of RPs cost.

    Could there be some flexibility with the "bonuses" offered? Could credits purchase other "rare" things besides items that players crave, such as a domus (meh) or a personal event?
    Last edited by Elowynn; 02-14-2018, 11:22 AM. Reason: Grammur.

  • #2
    I only see these worthwhile for my 9 year old Alts that I've played like twice. It's like I hit the jackpot!
    TRproclaim power!

    Originally posted by Armataan
    Did I just get told Synodia was a better RPed character than Culexus?
    Originally posted by Bucaria
    The player of Synodia should be made a GM, he seems to have no favorites and hates everyone equally.

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree, they could have a little more content, but I'm happy that they're offering something higher. I'm also pretty sure a custom item for Premium is 1000RPs nowadays.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Everyone,
        We really do appreciate the feedback on the new packages, and it has sparked some discussion on our side. We'd like to give a bit of an answer:
        The new packages were intended to be purely additive to what we had available prior, and the suggestion for them was based on the expectation of a large number of Veteran Character packages being awarded as part of the upcoming event. While we do want to encourage the utilization of Role Points for these additional packages, we also recognize that the investment of time in them is off-putting. We made the decision to pursue this to increase the number of options available to players.
        In addition, we're going to be using the time between now and the event to increase the number of items available in the Veteran Character Generator for purchase, among these are considerations of alternate methods to spend Veteran Character Credits, though we've not come to a concrete decision on those methods.

        Please do keep up the constructive feedback, and as always, feel free to use @feedback if you have ideas regarding how we can better improve your experiences in the game.
        GM Scolve

        Comment


        • #5
          I think it's a good addition, since vet characters are available for purchase, but their main idea is as a reward, or compensation, not meant to be bought. Consider this.... the tier 10 package is almost exactly double the tier 6 package, so it's double the cost. Seems fair.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks, Scolve, that sounds promising.

            Other thoughts for the use of Credits: (By valuing credits against a hooded cloak, 25 credits = 1 hooded cloak = normally a 2000 RPs expenditure for a custom item; a credit seems to be worth 80 RPs - perhaps slightly less valuable (50 RPs?), as you are stuck with a plain hooded cloak instead of a more flexibly designed item.)

            - Vouchers for skill slots (Assuming the highest tier 1500 rps cost, perhaps a voucher could cost 30 credits - some value is lost. Limit of 3. For a heavy hitting vet char package, I would buy these anyway with RPs, and having them packaged as part of the Credits would be valuable to me. An efficient player would max out lower-costing plain RPs purchases for skill slots first before using these.)
            - Vouchers for item alterations (Assuming a 250 rps cost, a voucher could cost 5 credits. Again, some value is lost. Limit of 3.)

            For reference, the current list of RP expenditure prices seems to be here:
            http://eternal-city.wikidot.com/role-point-purchases
            http://forum.skotos.net/forum/our-ga...t-pricing-list

            Comment


            • #7
              This -

              - Vouchers for skill slots (Assuming the highest tier 1500 rps cost, perhaps a voucher could cost 30 credits - some value is lost. Limit of 3. For a heavy hitting vet char package, I would buy these anyway with RPs, and having them packaged as part of the Credits would be valuable to me. An efficient player would max out lower-costing plain RPs purchases for skill slots first before using these.)
              - Vouchers for item alterations (Assuming a 250 rps cost, a voucher could cost 5 credits. Again, some value is lost. Limit of 3.


              Add a special room. Add "Coin" worth w/e Skill slot, additional stat boost, 500 GSP, 25 credits, access to a special room with skills not taught in the other area

              I like it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Considering back when I first started to play in the late 90's, you got squat for a dead toon, and you started from scratch. Got pk'd for something stupid, start from scratch. GM twisted your head off like a beer bottle top, start from scratch. A little push GSP and coinwise is always a good thing in my books, especially for people who ARE willing to sacrifice a toon they are either tired of playing, for the sake of entertainment of others, or just want to do something else and this a good way for a jump start to a new role playing experience. I have 3 toons at the moment and I'll be tossing one of them into the fire and will be happy to get the VC package I'll get for him.
                I think computer viruses should count as life. I think it says something about human nature that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. We've created life in our own image.
                Steven Hawkings

                Comment


                • #9
                  it took two weeks to max a toon back in the #### days (it was near imposible to hit outstanding ### level losing a toon was no big deal

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The GSP is low IMO. I think T6-T10 should increase by 2k each. T10 equals 10k GSP. Most the combat folks in the game these days have 50-100k+ combat SP. With 4k GSP you can max stance, recovery, rolling rise, and a stat skill. It would be nice to flesh out a little more.

                    If it's for a non-com character 10k is probably excessive.
                    Originally posted by urek23
                    On a scale from spawning-monsters-is-an-event to three-armors-fit-in-a-sack-on-purpose, how useless am I?

                    Fixed12345

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've deleted a few posts only serving to bicker and snipe. Please keep your posts constructive, and if you cannot be polite to one another when discussing your opinions on the topic, please at least be civil to one another.

                      That being said, if anyone has any constructive ideas for items beyond 'cooler faceplates' and 'more superior quality weapons', we'd love to hear them. The 'item' store in particular could use a lot of ideas, since it's the only store that consistently lacks options. We have a shop for weapons, armor, clothing, and jewelry, but the 'everything else' store could use some fresh ideas as to what people would want to spend credits on.
                      Game Master Tale
                      Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad. Creativity is putting tomatoes in a fruit salad to make mango salsa. Philosophy is wondering if that means ketchup is actually a smoothie. Common Sense is knowing that no, ketchup is not a smoothie.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sure!

                        a thin marble tile bearing the image of a fair complected brunette with solemn, dark eyes.
                        You see nothing extraordinary about a thin marble tile bearing the image of a fair complected brunette with solemn, dark eyes.

                        a smoothly worn ring carved of laurel wood
                        You see a well aged, thin ring carved of a solid piece of straight grained wood. The natural lines encircle a finger in rough parallels, and the wood has come to a beautiful, rich burnish over time and careful application of oils.

                        a silver-tipped hunting horn of spiraling bone
                        A long, spiraling length of horn is hollowed, and inset with thick silver at the rim and slender mouthpiece. The horn boasts a dense, pale gray ivory, shot with streaks of black.

                        a thick, leather bound codex bound in engraved iron
                        Thick bands of iron clasp together the leather-bound covers. Thin, scrolling designs are engraved along the metal surfaces, depicting celestial objects in different phases.

                        a surgical needle constructed of a thin sliver of retalq

                        Like that? More?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Locksmith items such as practice eggs or a mini board, lockpicks in hidden form, like a hairpin or belt buckle or handled with different woods
                          Larger healing bags with nicer tools (needle, scissors)
                          Outdoor tools such as sickles and scythes in something other than iron.
                          Fishing poles made from rare materials (Sestine pine fishing pole with a seelan handle)
                          Satchels made from animal hides.
                          Pipes of rare materials (whalebone, ivory, gazelle horn, serpent fang)
                          Nicer tailoring tools besides vanilla and silver (seelan handled scissors, alanti needle).
                          Larger containers like cabinets, wardrobes and cargo chests.
                          Animals in bowls (frogs, mice, bright colored fish, eels?).
                          Sacks with blank labels that you can write on, like the crates IG - though adding this to the game would be WAY better for all *hint* *hint*
                          An actual working portable tent, that once you place it, only you or someone you authorize to move it can. Set it up like domus permissions, if this can even be coded..


                          I think computer viruses should count as life. I think it says something about human nature that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. We've created life in our own image.
                          Steven Hawkings

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            An inkeeper that provides a key and so much free rent.

                            You ask an inkeeper, what rooms do you have?

                            An inkeeper replies "There are rooms open at the following inn's - Dancing Cat, Toga...etc.. which one did you want?

                            Perhaps a room make-over is included in one of the upper tiers to follow that...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              instead of making for domii for people, why not do some apartment buildings? there's the half finished one by the old city, a building behind Apula's already has numbered doors.
                              a 3-4 room apartment might be a better option than more 6 room houses

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