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Suggestion: Seperate Combat SP and Non-combat SP cycles

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  • Suggestion: Seperate Combat SP and Non-combat SP cycles

    So this is probably a have your cake and eat it too request but one of my biggest problems throughout the years is having a hobby/job skill as a combat character.

    Unless you dedicate a character to non-com with peaceful spirit you're already at an SP disadvantage as a combat character. Take into account how quickly you can reach 250sp after weekly reset and you're basically at .07-.02 for a non-com skill after the first day of training. Atleast in my experience.

    Let's use hunting lore as an example:
    I -can- trap animals exclusively and wait for them to be trapped and skin them for pure hunting sp.
    As a combat character, I will -most likely- be killing animals with my weapon and skinning them for profit.
    The more likely approach above means that the majority of my weekly sp gain is going to be combat, which in turn limits my ability to get hunting sp. Which is already limited by not having peaceful spirit as a combat character.

    When you have to take into account that this game requires you to have 2000+ ranks in weapon/cm's/shields there isn't much wiggle room in a training regimen for a non-com skill with current system. I understand that every tomius, dickius, and harrius shouldn't be a grandmaster locksmith/hunter/healer and it gives a reason to have dedicated non-com's in the game but there has to be some middle ground where I don't need to sacrifice a whole week's worth of combat training to focus on a hobby skill.

    Maybe we could spitball some ideas that the GM's might be willing to consider in order to allow hobby/job skills to be trained a bit easier than they currently are for a combat character?

  • #2
    GM's have long discouraged Jack-of-all-trades type toons for a long time.

    This would be a step in the other direction. HOWEVER - that being said...I am a jack-of-all-trades toon

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    • #3
      I get that...but let's take a swordsman for example. That swordsman has Swords, CM's, Shields, and style as his first four slots. He's now trying to train hunting lore in the fifth slot at minimal gains because of the penalty from not having peaceful spirit. Let's say he gets an average of .05 a skin that's 180 successful skins for a single rank of an easy move. That's the definition of masochism. I'm not suggesting everyone can have everything but there could be some sort of middle ground we could meet at.

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      • #4
        This is one of the only good points of tears. During the day Wednesday, go to RV and grab a quick round of tears and you should get one or two that will help your specific skillset. THen once the cycle resets, use that tear and get 20-30sp (I havn't cracked one in a long time, but at the start of a cycle it was around this) in that skillset. To me it's a TON better than spending hours getting 20-30sp in a set that's boring to train like that. If your char has issues with tears, you may be SOL though

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        • #5
          Question: doesn't sp from tears count against the cycle? (never used one)
          And answer to topic starter: Non-combat skills are done for the most part, with 100 in basics, and a few ranks in a few other things, unless you're striving for perfection, which would be better to be a non-com to do. So... take a week or two, and finish your non-com skill of choice, and go back to being a combatant, a week off never really made a difference between living and dying.

          Please note, I said for the most part, and that yeah, there will still be room for improvement, but that's irrelevant to a combat character who just wants a hobby.

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          • #6
            You don't have to simply skin things for SP. You could just as easily fish, hide, or use the piles of resources littered about to craft things - all of which require no convenient dead animals. You can also use Outdoor Survival sp to train Hunting skills. Which means you could grind resources to your heart's content for sp. Then grind out craftables from said resources.

            Yes, tears count against the sp cycle. But as was pointed out, if you use them first at the very beginning of the cycle, you get the 'biggest bang for your buck', getting far more sp if used near the start of the cycle than at the end. Which would cut your 'grind' time down by a great deal if you just wanted easy sp in your noncom skill before going off to train combat.

            Almost all the noncom skills are self-reliant and you don't need to know any other skills to be good at that role. You can be ONLY a Healer, or ONLY a Tailor, or ONLY a Locksmith, or ONLY a Hunter, or ONLY an Outdoorsman, etc, etc. You really can't ONLY be a Whipper, or ONLY an Axeman with no CMs or Shields or any other skills. It isn't viable. So combat people get more sp more easily, because of necessary skill-spread. Also as was pointed out, you need a couple hundred noncom ranks to be 'perfect' at everything in the skillset. A few hundred more to get the maximum benefits of certain skills like the best quality, etc, etc. Combat characters are almost never 'perfect'. People have THOUSANDS of combat ranks and still have more to strive for.

            Yes, you can make 'jack-of-all-trades' characters, but no it is not easy - and this is on purpose. They limit your need and therefore inclination to ever interact with other people for goods and services. They reduce your inclination to play alternate characters, which means less characters overall. Less characters overall means less roleplay to be had, as well as fewer avenues for roleplay for everyone as well. It also means less specialization, which means overall fewer 'experts' available for the people who don't want to be jack-of-all-trades characters and rely on those experts existing. This is what alts and/or interacting with other player-characters is for, and why I have added so many ancillary benefits for ranking the noncom skills all the way up to 100 - to encourage and reward the 'expert' characters. So no, we have zero inclination to make 'jack of all trades' characters easier.
            Game Master Tale
            Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad. Creativity is putting tomatoes in a fruit salad to make mango salsa. Philosophy is wondering if that means ketchup is actually a smoothie. Common Sense is knowing that no, ketchup is not a smoothie.

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            • #7
              Tale, your signature is great. Ketchup as a smoothie. Ha!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Tale View Post
                .......Yes, you can make 'jack-of-all-trades' characters, but no it is not easy - and this is on purpose. They limit your need and therefore inclination to ever interact with other people for goods and services. They reduce your inclination to play alternate characters, which means less characters overall. Less characters overall means less roleplay to be had, as well as fewer avenues for roleplay for everyone as well. It also means less specialization, which means overall fewer 'experts' available for the people who don't want to be jack-of-all-trades characters and rely on those experts existing. This is what alts and/or interacting with other player-characters is for, and why I have added so many ancillary benefits for ranking the noncom skills all the way up to 100 - to encourage and reward the 'expert' characters. So no, we have zero inclination to make 'jack of all trades' characters easier.
                Awesome

                I'd rather people have to make the hard choice if they want to be someone with 20 subskills vs someone who is a SME

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                • #9
                  New sub skill fish combat damage based off fish size and fish. Attacks like fish to fish. Fish to groin. Fish slap and fish slapping block
                  "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

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                  • #10
                    I'd pay real money for fish slapping block. Just to see it used in a real situation at some point in the game would be worth it.

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                    • #11
                      When I decided to learn healing on my character who at the time was whips/cms/shields/clubs?/healing I ONLY used tears for training and got perfect stitch and one or two other skills on JUST using tears. He wasn't the type of character who would be sitting around a hospice or asking people if he could remove their stitches. I honestly don't want to see it be easier to have a do it all character. I figured a character who could stitch himself in a pinch was more than enough. He also had been a really good skinner before the skinning changes. It is not overly hard to learn one more skill on top of the combat skills.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tyril View Post
                        When I decided to learn healing on my character who at the time was whips/cms/shields/clubs?/healing I ONLY used tears for training and got perfect stitch and one or two other skills on JUST using tears. He wasn't the type of character who would be sitting around a hospice or asking people if he could remove their stitches. I honestly don't want to see it be easier to have a do it all character. I figured a character who could stitch himself in a pinch was more than enough. He also had been a really good skinner before the skinning changes. It is not overly hard to learn one more skill on top of the combat skills.
                        This is basically the goal - it being acceptably "worth it" to pick up an extra noncom or two in order to do one or two very specific things, but very difficult (yes, possible) to "master everything" in further and further kill slots.
                        Game Master Tale
                        Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad. Creativity is putting tomatoes in a fruit salad to make mango salsa. Philosophy is wondering if that means ketchup is actually a smoothie. Common Sense is knowing that no, ketchup is not a smoothie.

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