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  • Archery issues.

    With archery being mostly nerfed for skill point gain by former users, would it be possible to incorporate loading a bow, aiming at the same time as you actually use a shot since we don't get skill point gain from loading or aiming anyway? It's a pain in the ass to have to load a bow, than wait the round time, then aim if you want too, than let loose a shot. That's 2 or 3 movements, depending on if you aim or not, to a normal weapon users one movement with all the skill point gains for the move they do. And with the last set of nerfing of damage being done to archery, not like a one movement load/aim/shot action all that worrying.
    I think computer viruses should count as life. I think it says something about human nature that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. We've created life in our own image.
    Steven Hawkings

  • #2
    Archery is riddled with issues right now, front and foremost of which is that they were nerfed into the ground by a GM that openly admits he has very little knowledge of combat, and has no business making adjustments to it.
    Parting shot damage was reduced, despite the fact that I'm fairly certain I have the only archer in the game that trained it high enough to match the new damage cap, which was raised to extreme requirements as it is.
    Quick draw doesn't load your preferred ammo.
    You can't shoot as far as you can scan with eagle eye or high perception. Instead of a simple 'You can't shoot that far' you get a buggy message that you can't see your target anymore.
    Your arrows can stray even at point blank range if you don't take time to aim, which is a waste of a round time that doesn't give SP.
    Archery fatigue loss is bananas. It makes trying to hunt with friends pointless, as you're always the first to get tired.

    Leaving the bugs is one thing, because I can understand that archery is probably a coding nightmare, but the blatant nerfs to take a quick and lazy approach to preventing an easy way to bandit is a huge slap in the face to the people that've spend the time to make legit archers and try to actually RP in the game world with them.

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    • #3
      I hadn't really experienced arrow bandits before the changes to archery. With missile awareness and shield missile defense doesn't that effectively nerf arrow damage to a reasonable level? If it does then with all of the downsides of archery that have been spelled out multiple times. Why don't they just roll back the damage nerfs?

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      • #4
        ^ Yep. Pretty much everything Rinduck said.

        Damage needs boosted for archery. It costs arrows, which are not cheap. Arrows require buying, carrying around, and pulling out of corpses, which is a truly a horridly arduous task. In a fatigue bar, an archer loosens about 150 arrows. Imagine pulling all of those out (of the targets that didn't just walk away and despawn, anyway.) (Arrows don't even stow into a sack. You have to pull 'em, put them into your sack manually, and have your hands free to continue pulling the next one. That's a lot of up entering.)

        The RT for triplebash is MOS+2 or something? 3 fractures, ~3 seconds.

        The RT for archery is: quickload (MOS), aim (MOS+1), shoot (MOS+1 or MOS+2) = 1 wound, ~6 seconds. Without aiming, it's still ~4 seconds. Sure, arrows cause sticking damage over time, but that damage is very small.

        A DPS calculation is pretty simple. It's just not worth pulling out a bow and arrow over any other weapon, in almost every situation. If archery is going to take longer and hits are gonna cost money, then at least the damage should be substantially more deadly.

        Please at least roll back the damage nerfs Tale implemented a while ago. Archery should have been hitting harder than that to begin with. Iron arrows should do nasty damage.

        Suggestion: Make arrows require a higher roll over success to "stick", but make the stick cause more damage. I think if a fighter is being grazed by a hail of arrows, perhaps that wouldn't be doing a ton of damage. But if an arrow finds solid purchase in the flesh, then this fighter should be truly hurting. Rolling well over success (let's say at least 75-80 over 5 for a solid archer with good ranks, good stats) could be the only way that makes an arrow stick - this will then depend on accuracy, ranks, conditions, position, aiming, and luck - just like a real deadeye shot. That way, if you bullseye your target, you can truly celebrate a little win. I think this would be neato - as an archer, you'd be constantly trying for that one perfect shot, rather than constantly plinking a hail of useless sticks at someone.

        I think this also gives more meaning to the healer skill, pull arrows. Right now, pulling arrows is almost a joke. Isn't it weird that folks are walking around with 5-10 sticking out of their feet and faces, no big deal?

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        • #5
          anyone can yank an arrow out of themselves, the difference with a healer doing it, is there's a lot less chance of it causing you to bleed, or pass out.

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          • #6
            A berserking archer goes right through awareness acm and shields
            "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

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            • #7
              It's a skillset that exists to make us train either 90 or 180 ranks. That about sums it up.

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              • #8
                Can't compare archery to staves. Archery hits from a different room.
                That said, I am amused that I took athletic, and hunter's eye for my archer. Fatigue drain is flat for archerry, athletic doesn't work for it. Then to hear I can't shoot the max visibility range is amusing due to hunter's eye.
                In my opinion the real problem with archery, is it is available to new players. Someone is going to make an archer, and be like, why the fuck isn't anything working? Than leave the game.
                For fucks sake, I was helping someone out, told them occ had to be in brackets and they quit that moment.

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                • #9
                  Archery is not newbie friendly agreed,but Iíve been shot by an archery with a third of my ranks and the one moment pleaseto run into a room to catch them disadvantage, pros and cons
                  "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

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                  • #10
                    I remember Koppe winning a match against an archer not that long ago and having 20+ arrows sticking out of his face. THAT was amusing. I should have been dead 10 times over, but the DPS is a joke. The fatigue loss is a joke. The training is a joke.

                    The only thing that is going for archery is the fact that it can be used for banditing, which the game-world needs more of. Most people travel in groups though. 1 archer would almost never attack 2+ people, effectively making the weapon/bandit character useless. An example. Koppe and Kered are walking down the road, holding hands and skipping stones. Koppe gets shot by a bandit. Kered goes "Oi! Wtf mate!" (because he's from Australia IG) and runs <direction>. By the time the bandit has time to react to hero Kered's response, he's approached and taken down by Avros. Yes, avros.

                    Rinduck's first post on this thread is money though. Absolute money.

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                    • #11
                      Recently Scolve shot me with a gm bandit using barbs and irons, the damage was there the fatigue loss was brutal, and good luck on that running the middle of something archer walking away wins every time. But wtf mate cracked me up. No one gets taken down by avros
                      "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

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                      • #12
                        Odd. I can outlast people on the sands with my archer before I need to rest. I usually just burn half a bar and scoot myself. And that's using rapid fire, basic shot, hand and head shot. I toss in the odd foot shot an parting shot for shits an giggles from time to time. Seems you need to pick something other than a pussy Altene when making an archer

                        And we don't need more bandit archers anymore. Its bad enough pretty much every law enforcement person IG sees a new archer and probably says to themselves "Well...I give it X months before I'm chasing him for banditry..."
                        I think computer viruses should count as life. I think it says something about human nature that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. We've created life in our own image.
                        Steven Hawkings

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                        • #13
                          bout 12 months. because it is going to take at least 50 longer to make a meaningful character as an archer. Just wow to the SP gain wall one has to overcome when making a new character.

                          The archery god says to you, "Hello thanks for choosing archery. You get one attack, all other attacks are going to require ranks in skill before you learn them."
                          two weeks later
                          The archery god pokes your nose, "O you thought footshot would work on the archery target. You're just a little button."

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                          • #14
                            I was going to reply, but Kered hit most of the salient points. And what I'm seeing posted by people claiming a "nerfed" archery doesn't match the damage and fatigue numbers I'm observing IG.

                            As for the "Nerf" I made by fixing the bug that caused 10x damage when you hit +100 ranks...sorry you feel my math is off. I ran it by the rest of the staff and they all agreed with the change. Even the ones who "know about combat". Hope that asuages your concerns in that regard. I actually increased the damage beyond what it was originally intended, by raising the scaling cap.

                            As for speed of loading and retrieving arrows and arrows not auto-stowing, I'd urge you to @report those issues and they'll be looked into appropriately.
                            Game Master Tale
                            Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad. Creativity is putting tomatoes in a fruit salad to make mango salsa. Philosophy is wondering if that means ketchup is actually a smoothie. Common Sense is knowing that no, ketchup is not a smoothie.

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                            • #15
                              Perhaps archery isn't effected by athletic? I can train/hunt much longer using a stave than I can a bow and arrow. I also do way more damage with half the ranks, but we all know how I feel about staves, so I don't feel it's a very fair basis to compare ANYTHING to.

                              I still don't understand why parting shot is still suffering from a damage nerf. Every other weapon in the game with a parting attack actually sees a BONUS to their damage and/or accuracy on the attack.

                              I've reported many bugs with archery, such as arrow preference not being taken into consideration for quick draw. A GM attempted to address it, but it caused other bugs, so it was reverted back to the way it was and left alone.

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