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  • Ozymandius
    replied
    Originally posted by Dark997895 View Post

    I gotta call this out for the same attitude we railed against before with the previous administration.

    "This won't be changed now or anytime soon" is the same answer we got from an Staff that, to our perspective, didn't care, and it was led by a man who didn't know or care to learn.

    Sceadu listened to respond, not to understand. Siddhe listens to understand, and Staff's actions since her appointment makes me believe this is true, and is a genuinely bright light and hope for the future.

    This post here? It smells of the Old Way we all fought so hard to leave behind. You have people of all skills levels, weapon sets, orgs, backgrounds, account ages, and combat experience, all telling you the same thing and I am too: add the RT to the two moves, and re-assess the impact as it plays out.

    Sceadu didn't listen to his customers. I'm begging you not to make the same mistake.
    This right here. Not only ANOTHER agreement on staves needing this hotfix, but also the attitude of "The Old Way" being unacceptable.

    Leave a comment:


  • PhilippeCP
    replied
    Just chiming in to say this is not the will of an outspoken minority. This is something we all want.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dragonus
    replied
    Originally posted by Pranzor View Post
    Our focus will likely be on making positive changes to other skill sets before making any negative changes. The priority remains on fixing the trait system, a result of a quick fix that had huge impacts on the combat system. There are currently no plans to make any negative changes to the staves skill set, and we do not plan on making all weapon sets entirely homogenous. As I have said before, the combat system is diverse and the hope is to keep it that way.

    I understand that this was the decided direction to go in. Could you share the reasoning for this decision? Is the idea that this has a greater benefit to the overall game and if so what aspects do you take into consideration when deciding what to tackle first?

    Leave a comment:


  • Rinduck
    replied
    Shizdain's held several fight nights over the last few years. He uses combat assess (an assessment of total combat ranks that separates the combatants into tiers) to set up even fights. This usually ends up in fairly close matches. I've had to place stavers against people one or two tiers higher than them to even have a remotely close fight, and even then they usually win. This is true for tiers all over the spectrum, not just high lor or medium. All of them. If this isn't an indication something needs to be changed, I'm not sure what is

    Leave a comment:


  • TEC_Ghuan
    replied
    To be fair, the roundtimes for both SSPIN and DSWEEP should be looked at. 1+MoS for a stance changing move is illogical. You get a free to hit bonus and can switch stances twice before 75% of skills even have a chance to hit you back. It is an oversight that needs to be changed. Even a regular manual stance change takes 2+MoS.

    My recommendation goes to having SSPIN and DSWEEP have a roundtime increase from 1+MoS to 2+MoS. It would also leave you open to some attacks in some situations. The main reason Japes changed the tin knife from having a MoS attack is because it made them immune to a lot of skills. This issue with staves is identical. A stance changer at 1+MoS just makes them invulnerable to most attacks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tweninger
    replied
    Originally posted by Dark997895 View Post

    I gotta call this out for the same attitude we railed against before with the previous administration.

    "This won't be changed now or anytime soon" is the same answer we got from an Staff that, to our perspective, didn't care, and it was led by a man who didn't know or care to learn.

    Sceadu listened to respond, not to understand. Siddhe listens to understand, and Staff's actions since her appointment makes me believe this is true, and is a genuinely bright light and hope for the future.

    This post here? It smells of the Old Way we all fought so hard to leave behind. You have people of all skills levels, weapon sets, orgs, backgrounds, account ages, and combat experience, all telling you the same thing and I am too: add the RT to the two moves, and re-assess the impact as it plays out.

    Sceadu didn't listen to his customers. I'm begging you not to make the same mistake.
    Well said.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ellingson
    replied
    There are two main reasons I killed off my staver, Her story has ran it's coarse and the staves was too perfect a weapon. It is fast, it hits hard, multi hitters, 3 sweeps, near perfect defences, it lacked a lunge but didn't need one due to the fact so many of the skills could be used at either range, with just 2 skill slots you could reach top end pvp. The adding to the MoS is a good idea. No matter how hard I worked on the character in the end it was one I could never really be proud of, in the back of everyone's head a staver is op and a face rolling skill set and they do not have to put in the time and effort other weapon skill sets have to.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kered
    replied
    I support any change to staves, data shows that they are over powered and need to be looked at

    Leave a comment:


  • Dark997895
    replied
    Originally posted by Pranzor View Post
    Our focus will likely be on making positive changes to other skill sets before making any negative changes. The priority remains on fixing the trait system, a result of a quick fix that had huge impacts on the combat system. There are currently no plans to make any negative changes to the staves skill set, and we do not plan on making all weapon sets entirely homogenous. As I have said before, the combat system is diverse and the hope is to keep it that way.
    I gotta call this out for the same attitude we railed against before with the previous administration.

    "This won't be changed now or anytime soon" is the same answer we got from an Staff that, to our perspective, didn't care, and it was led by a man who didn't know or care to learn.

    Sceadu listened to respond, not to understand. Siddhe listens to understand, and Staff's actions since her appointment makes me believe this is true, and is a genuinely bright light and hope for the future.

    This post here? It smells of the Old Way we all fought so hard to leave behind. You have people of all skills levels, weapon sets, orgs, backgrounds, account ages, and combat experience, all telling you the same thing and I am too: add the RT to the two moves, and re-assess the impact as it plays out.

    Sceadu didn't listen to his customers. I'm begging you not to make the same mistake.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tweninger
    replied
    I should also mention, in case it's just going over the GM's heads right now..

    We have a player with the most ranks of any combat character this game has ever seen, using staves, that wasn't his primary weapon to begin with, stating that he wants to see all other skillsets moved -up to par- with staves. Meaning staves are OP.
    You have a member of the BRP, that the playerbase voted for to be elected, voicing his frustrations on the OP'ness of staves currently. (I believe only one other member of the original BRP is currently playing.. But hey guess what? He uses the stave, and it wasn't his primary weapon to begin with)
    You have dozens and dozens of players with 'top tier' characters stating that not only does this need fixed, but it needs fixed now.

    Just throwing that out there, in case the confusion is there.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tweninger
    replied
    Originally posted by Elowynn View Post

    Regardless of what else is done to nudge and tweak other weapons, how is the sspin/dsweep combo good for weapons balancing? This HAS to be changed, regardless of everything else. Why not now? You state that other things are a priority until weapons can be looked at as a whole, and that many other things are a priority first. That means weapons balancing is a long ways away. Why can't this small, unreasonably OP, unbalanced thing be tweaked in the meanwhile, since it's so clear?

    To iteratire: sspin/dsweep. It is too fast. This happens:

    ------------------------------------

    # = time in seconds

    0: Gladiator uses any attack (most weapon attacks are MOS+2 at top end)
    0: Staver SSPINs (MOS+1). Gets the more aggressive RB to do it, too.
    1:
    2: Staver DSWEEP (MOS+1). Also gets the more aggressive RB to do it.
    3: Gladiator would be out of his original RT. Meaning, gladiator did not have time to respond to the original SSPIN before the DSWEEP occurs. Gladiator now is swept, and the rise failure is very high. Gladiator now has additional RT from being swept, or has left openings.
    4: Staver triplebashes, or spinstrikes, or pivots.

    Staver does a couple moves to cycle. Repeats.

    ------------------------------------

    The damage stuff with staves is a separate issue (triplehitting moves in the competitively fastest skillset...), and can be looked at later. Whenever that later is appears to be a long ways away. Meanwhile, please change the RT to sspin/dsweep. This is not balanced regardless of what else is done to any weapon.


    You're not wrong. Why can't this be fixed? It's not an unreasonable request. It's broken. I almost feel like this is a bug. It's gotta be. How can this have gone overlooked? This is clearly broken and needs fixed.

    Pranzor, if you would, please explain to me how this bug isn't being considered more carefully. We're all kinda tired of it being brushed under the rug. This has gotta be a bug, there's no way it's meant to work the way it's currently designed. Increase the round time. That's seriously all we're asking for here. If a stave users comes on here to defend how it's not OP, or that all the other skillsets need to be buffed to be on par with staves, then they're either biased, trolling you, or don't know combat. There's no logical explanation to how dsweep and sspin don't have a slower round time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Elowynn
    replied
    If SSPIN/DSWEEP were changed to the proper MOS+3 or even MOS+2, Staves would still be absolutely amazing and the top choice. Change this. Change just this. Change the rest 6 months, 12 months, 18 months down the road gradually - it's going to be an ongoing project for the rest of TEC. But change this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Elowynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Pranzor View Post
    Our focus will likely be on making positive changes to other skill sets before making any negative changes. The priority remains on fixing the trait system, a result of a quick fix that had huge impacts on the combat system. There are currently no plans to make any negative changes to the staves skill set, and we do not plan on making all weapon sets entirely homogenous. As I have said before, the combat system is diverse and the hope is to keep it that way.
    Regardless of what else is done to nudge and tweak other weapons, how is the sspin/dsweep combo good for weapons balancing? This HAS to be changed, regardless of everything else. Why not now? You state that other things are a priority until weapons can be looked at as a whole, and that many other things are a priority first. That means weapons balancing is a long ways away. Why can't this small, unreasonably OP, unbalanced thing be tweaked in the meanwhile, since it's so clear?

    To iteratire: sspin/dsweep. It is too fast. This happens:

    ------------------------------------

    # = time in seconds

    0: Gladiator uses any attack (most weapon attacks are MOS+2 at top end)
    0: Staver SSPINs (MOS+1). Gets the more aggressive RB to do it, too.
    1:
    2: Staver DSWEEP (MOS+1). Also gets the more aggressive RB to do it.
    3: Gladiator would be out of his original RT. Meaning, gladiator did not have time to respond to the original SSPIN before the DSWEEP occurs. Gladiator now is swept, and the rise failure is very high. Gladiator now has additional RT from being swept, or has left openings.
    4: Staver triplebashes, or spinstrikes, or pivots.

    Staver does a couple moves to cycle. Repeats.

    ------------------------------------

    The damage stuff with staves is a separate issue (triplehitting moves in the competitively fastest skillset...), and can be looked at later. Whenever that later is appears to be a long ways away. Meanwhile, please change the RT to sspin/dsweep. This is not balanced regardless of what else is done to any weapon.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tweninger
    replied
    BRP would be sweet, but really we're asking for a small tweak on what's considered the biggest inbalance of any skill or skillset in the game.. One that's been tweaked, but not fixed. Keep tweaking it, and you're there. How long did it take to tweak the last dsweep fix? My guess is less then it takes for the GM's to find an excuse not to fix this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rinduck
    replied
    There's a big difference between homogeneous and balanced. I love all the changes happening, and am excited to see what new possibilities the new traits system will bring, but combat balances are a living breathing thing. Bring back BRP!

    Leave a comment:

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