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  • Ohs

    Since we are looking at combat, can we look at OHS damage, as it stands you have to pick up a sub nelsor,avros or pard to even be close to level damage. perception of a player, I see unarmed breaking bones,staves crushing skulls, Ohs faint wounds. Thoughts ?
    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

  • #2
    It would be nice if skills that required additional skillsets (Nelsor/CKF/etc.) felt like they had a benefit to them. Even something like OHA requiring shield vs THA. The benefit used to be that additional skillsets typically had a stance bonus, but now that's been applied everywhere.

    The benefit would be harder hitting (more damage or multi-hitter) or more strategic type of moves (hooks). But that doesn't seem to be the direction we're going in.
    A woman in a shiny boison helmet with an absurdly tall dome says to a ram in Cineran, "Oh yes, hit me now, you bad bad bad sheep."
    A woman in a shiny boison helmet with an absurdly tall dome is stunned.
    A ram bumps roughly into a woman in a shiny boison helmet with an absurdly tall dome with its head!.


    “Everybody in this country should learn how to program a computer... because it teaches you how to think.” - Steve Jobs

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    • #3
      Dear Kered,

      I appreciate that you would like to have OHS bumped up in damage. I feel that pain too! Do you mind if I share my thoughts and ask you a few questions?
      ​​​​​
      Seems to me OHS is another one of my defense skill sets. I don't use it for offense. It's basically a bunch of great blocks plus feint and chop.
      For my damage I use Avros, a skill set we share. My opinion is the damage output and risk vs reward of Avros is off kilter. It just doesn't perform the way Nelsor and Pardelian does. Neither in defense or offense. The damage of Avros is also lackluster relative to the difficulty of moves, where they target, and what blocks they go up against.

      Do you think that seeing Avros levelled would satisfy your concerns about damage? If not, why? Do you use your OHS for more than I do? What moves are you using (or would like to use) that are underwhelming you?

      Thanks for reading,
      Philippe

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      • #4
        Great response, for me all of OHS attacks seem weak, While Avros is a bump is damage itís openings are complete trash, other than whirling strike and r strike the damage is equally low. I feel gladii which is supposed to be best defense possible isnít but I also am told I may be bugged. I have 20 ranks in spears and 10 in subs while damage isnít rank related per say it seems massively off. knives and gladii have to have entire secondary skill sets to be middle of the road. That feels flawed. I do use all OHS attacks to answer your question.
        "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

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        • #5
          What's the damage of sidestrike like? Is it level 5? What's its crit quality like?

          4/6 attacks in OHS are easy moves. (I'm not counting sword sap or sword lunge). Sidestrike is average but requires two hands.
          Easy moves will typically do lower damage because they're easier to hit. Are you saying you want the easy moves in OHS to be brought up to level 4 damage?

          I don't think the intention of OHS is to have great damage. If it did and we were -still- able to the go into a subskill for even better or more rounded damage, plus utility, I would imagine that would quickly spin us out of control.
          I've always understood the trade between polearms and OHS+Shields is the spearmen, stavesmen, and two-handed axers get more damage at the cost of a layer of defense. If we follow that and bring OHS damage on par, or even a step below polearms I don't think we're left with something fair.


          Originally posted by Kered View Post
          ... While Avros is a bump [in] damage [its] openings are complete trash, other than whirling strike and r strike the damage is equally low.
          This is why I'm asking you to consider a world in which Avros is brought up to par with the remainder of the sword subskills and other offensive skill sets.
          You 100% have my vote and confidence when you say that the openings are garbage. It's an absolutely frustrating experience both PvE and PvP. I'm surprised it's taken me this long to get sick of it. I actually think a lot more of you for keeping with it as long as you have - a lot longer than me. I know this isn't a thread about Avros so I won't go into the changes I think it might require outside of the openings you mentioned.

          I'm glad you've brought this up because I'll be doing a video for the wiki on OHS soon.

          ​​​​​​​Thanks again,

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          • #6
            my feelings are we are required to have another layer of defense {shields} to be even comparison. between rotation block,whirling block etc that cover every area (this is me being dramatic) and we have to have the shield to cover missing holes plus a damage subskill. Yes a bump in easy damage that canít hit anyways
            "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

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            • #7
              How would either of you feel if, like Pardelian, Avros and Nelsor got a 'stab & twist' type move? That is, a move within a style skillset, that gives a small buff to specific skills within your OHS skillset. Do you think that would make the difference you suggest? What else do you think would need to be included?
              Originally posted by MrSelfDestruct
              I thought it was just a rumor that it was all number-crunching and competitive training in a game with no logical endpoint since characters are ostensibly immortal and can always get better.

              You mean it's true?
              Originally posted by Phwoar
              Maybe I'm just becoming some tea-sipping hippy, or maybe I'm sour because my main uses cesti, but, why sacrifice a character idea for the sake of some hypothetical edge in some imagined combat situation in the distant future?
              Originally posted by Elowynn
              Rupert is like the Snowden champion of TEC.

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              • #8
                Both OHS min damage needs an increase Iím not even suggestion over the top but itís terrible, Avros has a stance that should buff avros damage I donít need another move i would like not having to hope for a knock down to do standardize damage
                "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

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                • #9
                  Stab and Twist (automatic) (easy)

                  While not an attack outright, this technique adds a measure of ruthless effectiveness to the standard stabs and thrusts most Pardelians are known for.
                  That's a creative solution Rupert. I like that.

                  Kered Would you mind doing me a favor? Could you rename this thread to be capitalized OHS? It hurts my soul.

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                  • #10
                    Your soul will have to hurt Iím on an iPad at work yelling at the forums.
                    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

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                    • #11
                      We are not friends.

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                      • #12
                        I don't think OHS min damage needs a boost. It's 4 easy attacks + 1 average attack (no one consistently uses lunge/side strike). Those moves don't need a boost and it doesn't make sense to boost them or add another move. Rupert's suggestion is good but i don't like taking a perk of one style and adding it to all of them.

                        Sap might need a tweak but it's been a while since i played around with it. If it was tweaked it would probably be for accuracy or stun time.

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                        • #13
                          Faint wounding and small bruises seem illogical , since rank factor or strengths have zero bearing nor does weapon where other weapons do, a damage increase is logical nor will these four easy moves that are blocked easily by every weapon break pvp
                          "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kered View Post
                            Faint wounding and small bruises seem illogical , since rank factor or strengths have zero bearing nor does weapon where other weapons do, a damage increase is logical nor will these four easy moves that are blocked easily by every weapon break pvp
                            The OHA easy moves and OHS easy moves i think are very similar. The damage is the same but i believe OHA just has higher armor penetration.Maybe modifiying crit/armor penetration is an appropriate step. However, the OHS styles are really where the damage should be. OHS is a defensive skillset and meant to be used w/ a style.

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                            • #15
                              "I see unarmed breaking bones,staves crushing skulls, Ohs faint wounds."

                              If you bring topics like these up for discussion, you need to be able to back that up with data. Swords are weak compared to what? What damage are they able to do at max strength, with what weapon, with what attack vs other weapons. You need all of that info along with success/roll otherwise there's nothing substantial to argue about. Without actual data these discussions are meaningless.

                              On another note, lots of weapons have slower options that will do a lot more damage. Perhaps swords could have something similar where you lose 1 second, but you get a decent boost to damage. I've heard that boison gladius does this, but that the DPS isn't appropriate. Maybe a slight upgrade in damage there could be enough to have more damage potential, but again, I don't have the data for the gladius to make any actual informed opinion about it.

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