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  • Mini Healing Revamp Suggestions, in Stages

    Hello, healing is in a stagnant place, and I would like to resume requests for some tweaks. Even if we cannot get a complete rehaul for healing anytime soon, I would like to suggest some changes that work with the current system instead of introducing things that are too complex. Here we go.

    (Looking at numerous old threads, including this one: http://forum.skotos.net/forum/our-ga.../97693-healing - thanks to everyone who posted in that one.)

    PHASE 0 TWEAKS:
    Some wonkiness tweaks:
    - Some of the restrictions to being able to set, splint, or stitch yourself should be tweaked.
    ~ You should not be able to stitch your own back. Would even suggest a penalty for stitching your own head, face, neck.
    ~ You should be able to set your own bones (such as thigh, shins, feet), but not the rest (chest, waist, face, neck, head, etc.)
    ~ You should be able to align your own bones with splints (such as thigh, shins, feet, arms, hands, shoulders), but not the rest.
    Some tweaks that really should have been in place this whole time:
    - Lighting should affect healing. Bright light = base success. Poor light = lowers success. This can be overcome by higher ranks. (Is this already in place?)
    - Tourniquets should be changed to a lore. (Thanks Nervei's player for this suggestion.)
    - Removing stitches should require a knife, scissors, scalpel, etc. (Thanks ToothlessRebel for this suggestion.)
    - Cleaning wounds should require a rag or cotton.

    PHASE 1 (ROUNDTIME TWEAKS): Higher ranks in certain healing skills should lower your roundtime. (A repeated request from many healers.)
    - The approximate roundtime for a max speed character is 18-20 seconds (very rough.) Every 10 ranks past rank 30 should lower RT by 1 second, down to a minimum RT of 10 seconds.
    - No change to RT of bandage/remove.
    - RT tweaks to clean wound, remove stitches, set bone, splint bone, arrow pulling, administer, diagnose and others.

    RT chart (tested on outstanding speed and a fairly good speed characters):
    Stitching: MOS+18-20 or so. Every 10 ranks past rank 30 should lower RT by 1 second, down to a minimum RT of MOS+10 seconds.
    Tend is MOS+9. Every 10 basic ranks past 80 should lower RT by 1, down to a minimum of MOS+5.
    Diagnose is MOS+14. Higher ranks in diagnose currently give more information, is that correct?
    Remove stitch is MOS+14.
    Bandage is MOS+9.
    Remove Bandage is MOS+7.

    PHASE 2 (FAILURE TWEAKS): Failed healing attempts in serious matters should give an HP loss to the patient, as follows. (Also a repeated request from many healers, in various forms.)
    ~ Fail a bandage: No effects.
    ~ Fail application: No effects.
    ~ Fail a wound cleaning: You try to clean a wound but fuck it up with misplaced dabs at the injured flesh. - 1% fatigue due to pain. More fatigue loss the worse the roll is.
    ~ Fail a stitch: You try to stitch but fuck it up. Tiny suture ties are unevenly and slackly placed and the open wound fails to pull together. -5 HP.
    ~ Fail a stitch with a roll more than 50 under success: You try to stitch but fuck it up. The surgical needle draws threads that tears through tattered flesh. -15 HP. More HP loss the worse the roll is. This resultings in a trickling bleed.
    ~ Fail a splint: You try to splint Nervei's right arm with a wooden splint, but don't align it properly and have to start over. Your laborious jostling leaves mottled bruises where your fingers gripped flesh. -15 HP. More HP loss the worse the roll is.
    ~ Fail an align. Already has cool consequences. Good job!
    ~ Fail an align with a roll more than 60 under success: You done major fucked it up. (Healer's) desperately tight grip slips as the edges of bones are ground together, piercing a splintered end through flesh. - 50 HP. Gushing wound. Upgrade to "mangled ends showing through skin." You just caused a compound fracture.
    ~ Fail an arrow pull with a roll more than 1 under success needed: You yank the arrow and tear flesh and yada yada. Edges of the arrowhead not only slice through the pierced flesh but pulls away shredded meat, resulting in a fresh trickle of bright blood. - 25 HP. Causes a trickle bleeder.
    ~ Fail an arrow pull with a roll more than 20 under success needed: You yank the arrow and tear the flesh and yada yada. A faint crackling noise signals a splintering of the shaft as the arrowhead becomes separated, remaining embedded inside the wound. - 40 HP. Causes a trickling wound. And now you need to remove that thing.

    A new skill!
    ~ Remove arrowhead!

    PHASE 3 (BENEFITS TWEAKS): Good healing should improve healing time.
    - Failure to align bones at all slows healing by 50%.
    - Aligning bones does not lower healing time. (Base healing time.)
    - Splinting bones lowers healing time by 25%.
    - Rank 10 or better cleaning wounds lowers healing time by 5%.
    - Ranks 10 or better bandaging wounds keeps the wound from becoming dirty and lowers healing time by 5%
    - Ranks 25 or better bandaging wounds keeps the wound from becoming dirty and lowers healing time by 8%.

    PHASE 4 (DIAGNOSE TWEAKS)
    - This might be complicated. Saving space for another day.

    Thanks for reading.

    - TheD
    Last edited by Elowynn; 10-10-2019, 12:40 PM.

  • #2
    Dissolving stitches that are 30-50 points harder to stitch with but disappear when the normal removal timer is done would be a cool addition.

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    • #3
      You can be "good enough" at healing in two cycles, it's not important.
      All of this makes me laugh, because we can't even get it so that after "aligning" bones they aren't still sticking out of the skin!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ToothlessRebel View Post
        You can be "good enough" at healing in two cycles, it's not important.
        All of this makes me laugh, because we can't even get it so that after "aligning" bones they aren't still sticking out of the skin!
        :T

        Can't hurt to try to suggest helpful changes.

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        • #5
          No thanks, they can't even fix if you have a wound that is "slight" cut wincing
          "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

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          • #6
            better bandaging does speed healing slightly.
            more diagnose does tell you more, on a tend, what's missing is it doesn't tell you what's splinted, or has an arrow in it still.
            a clean wound heals faster, I don't think there's levels of clean, it's either cleaned, or not cleaned. There's levels of dirty though.
            splinted bones do heal faster.
            tourniquets should be removed, not altered into a lore, just remove it completely, and refund the sp spent on that and removal. It's broken, and always has been.
            application "seems" to stop having benefits at around 50 ranks, as nobody with better ranks has said they get better results, in fact they say the get the same results.
            removal has no purpose in training past ease of use, as it's either removed... or not.
            Most people learn healing so they can save their own lives, and you now want to introduce a method where they can't do that anymore, because they can't stitch their own back?
            I'm in disagreement with HP loss due to bad rolls, as even at 100/100 you can still roll a 1. Fatigue loss, sure. There's no point in killing someone, because you rolled a 1/1.
            Also, a lot of people would take advantage of that, and learn the bare minimum needed to perform the skill, to then beat someone up, and then make it worse, by "trying" to heal them, and say they were trying to heal them, when said person died from their wounds.

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            • #7
              I also disagree with a lot of the proposed changes. What we need is a thorough revamp that makes pure healers not only useful, but necessary. We have far too many combatants who know healing and completely remove the need for healers. The same can also be said for some of the other non-combatant skills, but I feel that healing is by far the worst since with very minimal amounts of ranks (50/50 in stitch and set bone) practically make you a perfect healer. Reducing roundtimes and incurring certain penalties will not help at all with the main issue that I see with healing. I do, however, agree that a reduction in roundtime at higher ranks would be much appreciated.

              There are some things that could be done that wouldn't take much time to implement and would push the healing skillset in a much better place.

              1) Wound severity should play a factor in how hard a wound is to treat. This could be implemented with relative ease. You check the wound severity level and based on that, you apply a penalty to the skill being used. It shouldn't be as easy to fix a mutilated foot as it is to fix a very simple, barely bleeding wound. This would apply to all wounds and not just bleeding wounds.

              2) There are two ways to implement #1. Given the current exponential rate for rank bonus, you can either make it so that every rank in the skill being used reduces that penalty, or you can make it so that the healing skillset has different rank bonus values.

              3) Make it so that based on the body parts, the skill being used will also receive a penalty. Some body parts are inherently harder to tend to than others. Unlike combat, the values shouldn't be as extreme as +25-75, they should be closer to +0-20.

              Now with this being done and balanced properly towards the upper echelon (150-200 ranks in stitching for mutilated body parts), we shouldn't be aiming for a 1 success. Healing should never be 'perfected' for the more damaged parts, just like a locksmith won't be able to ever unjam -everything- with a single successful action. You will be making tourniquet a required skill as it will temporarily reduce blood flow. Since tourniquets should be a temporary measure until you get the proper healing, I would heavily recommend giving them potential fatigue/HP drains for remaining too long on a body part.

              These changes will effectively allow pure healers to have more use. Non-dedicated healers would still be able to tend to the more minor wounds and also be able to apply tourniquets until a dedicated healer can be found whether it be a PC or NPC. New skills could also be used to further solidify a pure healer's role, but this would definitely be a step in the right direction.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hiya G,

                Your first sentence says you disagree with the changes, but the rest of your post seems to say that you see a need for healers to be differentiated from folks who only spent a few cycles perfectign stitching. I am not opposed to tweaks to the propositions I made. I even think making it impossible to stitch your own back is heavy handed - penalties as you suggest for certain bodyparts is a better suggestion. More thoughts?

                TheD

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                • #9
                  I do not think the life saving skill should cause HP damage. Maybe it'd be better if it just made the wound slightly worse, possibly including the bleeder.

                  I think it's fine to add negative effects to the others, but they should be negated on unconscious people. This would prevent certain easy abuses in your suggestions. These negatives could be amplified if targetting yourself. Maybe a skill malus should be part of the "pain" penalty for failure, which would mainly make it harder to heal in combat or to heal yourself after failing. Maybe induce vomiting or dizziness on certain skills or major failures. Vomiting makes administration more useful

                  I do not think there should be any hard blocks. If you want certain personal locations to be harder, just give them a progressive scale of modifiers. These could be applied generally to make it simpler, not skill-specific. I would imagine it's hard to bandage, stitch, or set your main hand.

                  Make dirty wounds harder to do anything with. Maybe make failures at dirt. These would make cleaning better.

                  There's a lot you can do that's fairly easy to make trained healers more useful.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I really like this topic and I hope that something comes of this thread. I think healing is in a very meh place but it could be a fun profession to be primary in, but not the way it is currently set up.
                    It really depends on what you want to do with the Healing skill set on how you should go forward with tweaks. If you are wanting it to be a useful secondary skill then leave it alone, you only need to get to 30 in stitch.
                    If you are wanting to make it a viable skill set and profession, then you shouldn’t half ass it. I’d suggest putting healing on the 100-rank scale like the other non-coms. But you should have a reason to take skills all the way up there. I agree that you shouldn’t look to fix healing with wincing the way it is. If wound severity is on a 10-point scale and you have a compound fracture, that should be a 10. Then if you set it well you should knock 2 levels off that, reduce the healing time. If you are excellent with application provide an excellent benefit – or- the ability to use special herbs (Mel’s old ones once you’ve GM this skill)
                    Healing should hurt, like a lot, if done by an inexperienced healer. Like you are ham-handed with setting a bone your patient should pass out and I like the suggestion of causing a compound fracture. For those that are saying that this would be abused, um sure. If you are already subdued by a bandit, they already can hurt you. All they need to do is KO you AGAIN and then administer raw fish to you. Basing any changes on what could happen in a very niche situation is a dumb way to run the game.
                    You should be able to do all the skills from the first rank learned but it will show. You should take damage from failures and successes; you won’t die if the healer doesn’t land a stitch once or even a few times. At around 30 ranks the damage from successes should be zero. At 50 ranks the damage from failures should be zero. The higher you take the skill the quicker you recover from the injury make it a sliding scale that reaches all the way to 100.
                    Cleaning should give you a bonus to success on the stitch, set, arrow pull etc. this makes sense if you’ve ever seen an actual wound that is bleeding. The higher you have ranked your ability to clean the cleaner you will make a wound. For instance, 1 rank you might need to clean the area 5 times but at rank 50 once is enough. Having a dirty wound should retard the healing process and you should risk infection.
                    Bandages should be reworked and made more interesting as well. You could have bandages with some poultice applied to it, which would speed recovery and keep the area clean.
                    Instead of having areas more difficult to work on based on location i.e. head is harder the arm, you should stack penalties based on the number of layers in the way. You want to be a tank? Great! It’s going to make stitching you harder and make bandages more useful as you could more easily apply a pressure bandage under layers than stitching. This would also be a valid reason for you to take you skills to 100.
                    I do like the idea of making a tourniquet into lore. Making a tourniquet is ridiculously easy to do in Rl and should be IG as well. Make it darn near impossible to keep fighting with one on, but it would allow people that are leaking the ability to plug the leak and run to a healer.

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                    • #11
                      What I'd like the end goal of the healing skillset to strive towards is: in most situations, a 30/30 stitcher can briefly a pause a hunting trip to patch themselves or friends up, and go back to business as usual. But a truly skilled healer can offer much more. On top of that, if you're very seriously injured, then, well, step aside random-guy-who-can-stitch - this poor mangled fellow needs more than random-guy-who-can-stitch.
                      • Some of the failure tweaks I suggested can be further tweaked, such as being toned down to occur only for catastrophic failures.
                      • I like Ghuan's suggestion of a penalty to success depending on wound severity. A gushing wound should be more difficult to stitch than an oozing one.
                      • I am still convinced that application of pain salve is nowhere near as effective as it used to be. This needs to be looked at. I've reported it in years past and was told it's working as it's always been, with only tweaks to the success/ranks being a recent development. Disagree. Currently, pain salve reduces winces only minimally. My recollection is that pain salve reduced wincing entirely for an hour or so. Somewhere in between is probably best - but as it stands, application of pain salve has almost no meaningful effect.
                      • By giving benefits to healing skills from higher ranks such as lower RTs and better healing effect, the game would encourage healers to focus their training on what's important to them. If you're a battle-MEDIC, perhaps stitching speed is key. If you're a HEALER, though, perhaps rehabilitation is your focus - you'll rank up in wound cleaning, splinting and aligning, application, and so forth.
                      • Ideally, there -needs to be a need- for healers. Currently, there just isn't. With all of these tweaks, casual stitching will still be a life-saving skill that will enable all but the most injured patients to continue on their grind. But if you have very serious injury, or want well applied bandages, cleaned wounds, accelerated healing time, proper application of pain salve, etc., then go see a "real" doc. Wouldn't it be nice for the gameworld to ask for the HoL or other skilled healers from time to time, and for those healers to feel needed for more than a "can u remove my itchy stitches?"

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                      • #12
                        Roleplaying requires actual healers... Most people don't Roleplay being injured, as it interferes with skill point gain, or loot collection.

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