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  • Tridents Revamp Suggestions

    So after playing tridents on two characters I have a decent understanding of them. They aren't the best weapon by any mean but they fit a certain niche for sailor/tuchean/gladiator types. That being said, I compiled some suggestions for the hopefully upcoming combat revamp one day to maybe spark discussion on what could or could not be done to make them more fun, flavorable, or competitive in pvp.
    • Triple Threat! :
      • Tridents have three tines. In current iteration I believe this is compensated by a much larger damage threshold than other weapons. However, logically/realistically, any forward facing move should do three hits. i.e. Jab, Stab, Vital Gouge, Parting Gouge, Parting Jab, Pierce, Lunge. Possibly Quick Rake and Slash.
      • Suggestion: Lower visual damage output for each of the above moves but make them multihitters that would do similar damage through three hits. So instead of a single gaping wound you would do three punctures. (Or however the math should line up for balance)
      • Reasoning: Tridents is a gladiator weapon and should be dazzling/showy. This would bring inline with other gladiator weapons like whips and cestii which have several multihitters and in turn crit more.
    • Tridents Jab:
      • Presently Tridents jab is THE WORST skill tridents has. It suffers the normal -20 penalty jabs and stabs from other weapons face along with an extra -10 compared to stab. This is not inline with other jab/stabs in other weapon sets. It's also slower than stab and quick rake by almost a second.
      • Suggestion: Remove random -10 penalty. Bring speed inline with current speed of stab.
    • Tridents Stab:
      • Tridents Stab is a solid easy move. Does decent damage, suffers the normal approached penalty but that's expected. However, the description of the move itself suggests it's a fast move "Veridio makes a quick stabbing motion at a thug with his trident!" It's not. It average 3-4 seconds at max speed with a tin trident.
      • Suggestion: Bring speed inline with quick rake.
    • Tridents Pierce:
      • These seems to be a copy of spears overhead thrust with one minor exception..it aims by default to mid. (This is a problem with literally every move except rotating bash and quick rake.) Overall a great move to follow up a parting jab.
      • Suggestion: Make this aim high by default.
    • Tridents Feint:
      • Long range feints are dumb. With the swarm tactics of modern/high level hunting grounds it's almost impossible to retreat long enough to get a feint in.
      • Suggestion: Allow close and long range feints.
    • Tridents Blunt Bash:
      • Great move.
      • Suggestion: None
    • Tridents Rotating Bash:
      • Great move. High damage, decent speed. Makes sense to be a ranged move.
      • Suggestion: None
    • Tridents Slash:
      • Another move that aims at thighs/waist only by default.
      • Suggestion: Aim high by default
    • Tridents Foot Pin/Sweep
      • This combo of knockdowns still baffles me. It's just not fun. I have to train foot pin (difficult) and swing disarm (average) using two seperate moves with two seperate (not fast) roundtimes to knock someone down approached. I have to train a difficult move to sweep someone ranged.
      • Suggestion:
        • Sweep: Allow sweep to be short ranged inline with staves and spears. They're all the same length.
        • Foot Pin: Make this do piercing damage if it doesn't pin the ankle.
    • Tridents Weapon Catch/Defensive Catch:
      • I've never been a fan of catches/hooks but they have their uses. In PvE they're useless because the npc will rewield before you even finish your round time. Defensive catch seems impractical. You're stepping defensively on a move that prevents your opponent to attack you. Not a smart tactic.
      • Suggestion: Make defensive catch a stepping move instead to take tactical advantage of your opponent losing their weapon.
    • Vital Gouge:
      • Great move by design. Can only be aimed at the good stuff. Hits hard. One tiny problem. By default it only aims at chest which is where all the armor is.
      • Suggestion: Have vital gouge rotate through it's allowable areas randomly unaimed. Chest, waist, neck, face, head. This allows more flare and variety to the move and actually aims at all the vital areas.
    • Parting Gouge:
      • Not a fan of this move purely because tridents has no stepping moves. I'd rather just use a regular vital gouge if I want to stay approached or a parting jab + rotating bash to achieve more damage in similar timeframe without having to adjust my stance after.
      • Suggestion: If you made Defensive catch a stepping move this would be a great combo move similar to stepping spin and defensive sweep for staves. Stepping catch, fling, parting gouge. Would make fights interesting.
    • Tridents Parting Jab
      • Great move. No complaints.
      • Suggestion: None
    • Tridents Throw:
      • Amazingly fun to hurl boison tridents in pve. Great damage, fun crits! I would not attempt in pvp setting because the other player will just discard my 120 talent trident and ruin my day.
      • Suggestion: Tie tridents administratively to trident user on throw similar to a fumble.
    • Quality of Life changes:
      • - Change the base item bronze trident with tin tines to tin-tined trident. It baffles me why a smith would waste perfectly good bronze then tip it with tin.
      • - Bring back pitchforks as a non-sparring weapon or make tin-tined tridents same speed as pitchforks. We lost our only reasonably fast weapon with the wooden weapon changes.
      • - Consider changing default aiming across all the moves. Majority of them aim by default at thighs/waist. It makes for little flavor/showiness.
      • - If no changes to make forward facing moves do multi-hitters consider one or two double/triple hitters like a stepping stab or jab.
    • Hunting/Tridents Idea:
      • Allow fishing with a harpoon/trident.
        • Syntax: fish with trident|spear
          • Success w/ fish: Carefully surveying the waters, you quickly pierce downwards skewering a <fish> on your <weapon>.
          • Success w/o fish: You slam your <weapon> into the water aiming at a <fish> but it narrowly escapes your attempt.
          • Failure:
            • You wildly stab at the water with your <weapon> to catch a fish but only manage to cause a large splash.
            • You pierce quickly at the water attempting to skewer a fish but come nowhere close!
            • You jab your <weapon> down at the water

  • #2
    Originally posted by herdias View Post
    [LIST]
    Triple Threat! :
    Tridents have three tines. In current iteration I believe this is compensated by a much larger damage threshold than other weapons. However, logically/realistically, any forward facing move should do three hits. i.e. Jab, Stab, Vital Gouge, Parting Gouge, Parting Jab, Pierce, Lunge. Possibly Quick Rake and Slash.
    Suggestion: Lower visual damage output for each of the above moves but make them multihitters that would do similar damage through three hits. So instead of a single gaping wound you would do three punctures. (Or however the math should line up for balance)
    Reasoning: Tridents is a gladiator weapon and should be dazzling/showy. This would bring inline with other gladiator weapons like whips and cestii which have several multihitters and in turn crit more.
    Tridents Pierce:
    These seems to be a copy of spears overhead thrust with one minor exception..it aims by default to mid. (This is a problem with literally every move except rotating bash and quick rake.) Overall a great move to follow up a parting jab.
    Suggestion: Make this aim high by default.
    Vital Gouge:
    Great move by design. Can only be aimed at the good stuff. Hits hard. One tiny problem. By default it only aims at chest which is where all the armor is.
    Parting Gouge:
    Not a fan of this move purely because tridents has no stepping moves. I'd rather just use a regular vital gouge if I want to stay approached or a parting jab + rotating bash to achieve more damage in similar timeframe without having to adjust my stance after.
    Suggestion: If you made Defensive catch a stepping move this would be a great combo move similar to stepping spin and defensive sweep for staves. Stepping catch, fling, parting gouge. Would make fights interesting.
    Tridents Throw:
    Amazingly fun to hurl boison tridents in pve. Great damage, fun crits! I would not attempt in pvp setting because the other player will just discard my 120 talent trident and ruin my day.
    Suggestion: Tie tridents administratively to trident user on throw similar to a fumble.
    Tridents are actually a pretty good weapon. High damage, decent defense, balanced by low speed.
    Your triple threat idea is flawed, in that it does more damage to compensate for having three points of entry. Multi-hitters can miss the second or third hit, whereas the trident just does more damage, so all three tines connect, every time.

    Pierce is wonderful the way it is, it's great for using on someone you've knocked down, to do massive damage to the legs, to keep them down, even if they get back up... they're liable to fall down again, and strain to get up.

    Vital gouge aims at the critical places of the thing you're fighting. Human targets are the chest, because it's aiming for the instant kill of a heart stab, other things it aims elsewhere, like crabs it aims for the face.

    Parting gouge is not really something you CAN use when already defensive. It's purpose is to make you less vulnerable, when you're fighting more aggressively, and then someone gets in your face. You literally can't use it when defensive already. I enjoy it. Sometimes.

    The problem with tying your trident to you administratively, when thrown, is that much like spears and arrows, you and throw a trident further than the room you're standing in. Other than that, no objections.

    In short, Tridents are a great weapon, for those who know how to use them as they are meant to be used. You can't fight with a trident like it's a spear for instance. It's massive damage, balanced by low speed.

    Comment


    • #3
      Tridents was actually given a very powerful meta change that I love and think is underused (I would have used with my new main but went another skillset path). The chance to randomly entangle is pretty awesome, and I think the following changes should be made:

      1) Auto Entaglement should be toggle-able (though could still happen at a lower percent by accident). Basically, ranks in Trident Weapon catch will increase chance of entanglement when active and decrease chance of accidentally entangling when not active. This gives the trident wielder the option of using the tactic, while not causing a headache when just wanting to hit if they're skilled enough.

      Example:
      Newbie at No ranks in Weapon Catch has 50% chance to entangle when turned on and 30% chance to entangle when turned off.
      Grandmaster in Weapon Catch has 75% chance to entangle when turned on and 5% chance to entangle when turned off.

      2) Tridens (and all weapons with fling/twist abilities) should have more of an advantage when doing so. Right now Having Max strength results in more reliability with basic "Free" than twist/fling with high ranks. I think the entire entanglement system needs a roundtime/chance overhaul honestly to make it more similar to armwrestling. A Grandmaster with fling should have advantage over a super strong guy with no skill.

      Comment


      • #4
        Not all multi-hitters miss the 2nd or 3rd hit. Some guarantee it with specific ranks. Spinstrike always does three hits. Double cut for example always hits twice with 50 stab and 50 slash. The ability to crit three times is what makes weapons like whips, cestii, knives, and staves stand out during fights. It is far more exciting to watch than "A gaping wound". I'm OK with how the damage is calculated currently I just think it'd be neato if the realism of having three stabby bits actually showed.

        The chance to auto-entangle in current iteration can only happen on a miss with a piercing/slashing move and can only happen once every 30 seconds. I'd rather hit someone for a lot of damage then hope for a miss that -might- entangle that I -might- be able to fling away before they overpower me with a silly free roll. The catch/hook system definitely could use some love as Ilkilyn said.

        I'm aware how defensive moves work ArchMagi. I was suggesting that Defensive Catch become Stepping Catch to create a combo similar to Stepping Spin, Defensive Sweep.

        Vital Gouge most likely aims at the head because they don't have a chest to aim at. I didn't confirm but it'd be my guess it looked for a chest couldn't find it and cycled through what parts vital gouge can attack til it found one to default to.

        Great dialog so far! Keep it up. Except you Syden. Not productive!

        Comment


        • #5
          You're missing the part of auto-entangle that can snare the enemies weapon when THEY swing at you as well. You don't have to swing and miss to entangle, I've entangled many times, when they miss.
          I mentioned nothing about defensive catch, meaning I had no issues with your suggestion. I was only commenting on parting gouge.

          You might want to talk to Torgeir about tridents, and it's tactics in combat, I think you might be missing some stuff, while being good with other stuff. You can not do that too, but would it hurt?

          Comment

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