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What is good role playing?

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  • #31
    Thank Gamma!!!

    SOMEONE FINALLY MAKES SENSE!!!!! WHOOT!!!!


    I love you Wende, you rock.
    Madalina Blue and Saruno

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Wende View Post
      Also, keep in mind that this is a very serious game and if you are experimenting with a new character, expect some time to get adjusted to the background. People might react a certain way that is personal to them, especially with older players. Expect some history to be attached to their reactions (the good or bad ones).
      I think we need to spend a little more time discussing this. Now, my intention with this entire post was to speak about role play on an ooc level. I'll clarify -- we as players have this game we participate in. We make choices as ooc individuals about the way our characters will react icly. Now, this doesn't always mean that I am my character. Obviously, I could choose to have my character act way different than I would in a situation...anyway, so we're talking about the ooc aspects of this game and how it affects our role playing.

      This game has a -huge- turn around rate. People join and people quit. And I think two people just pointed out why that's happening. New characters with new players are not the same as old players with old characters. I don't care how IC you want to stay, we need to cater oocly to new players. New characters aren't the only one's getting adjusted new players are too. If a new character is acting weirdly it would be my suggestion to have an ooc chat with them, maybe they aren't understanding the theme. But to have your character automatically tell them they are defective and going to get shot, man that would suck. Most of my experience comes from CM and I know for a fact (this is a game with high favor social role play) that new players/characters are given breaks at the beginning because the PLAYER is learning too.

      Last thing I'd like to say, about expecting consequences for your choices. It's probably one of the hardest things to do in this game because most of the characters behavior is totally erratic and nonsensical. That's the most frustrating part of this game for me, is that I watch in utter disbelief at some of the scenes because they make no sense to me whatsoever.

      Comment


      • #33
        Many people are used to PC or console games, where the time spent in game gives undoubtedly progress. Often it leads to the believe those who started to play at a later time should have less.

        I could not disagree more.

        Playing with the same people all the time gets pretty boring, new players are the fresh blood that livens up any game, the new perspective they bring in, the change, the freshness, the creativity, the approach is what keeps role play dynamic and living.

        You don't like the char? GREAT, a future prospect enemy! Don't you need enemies to have a goal to strive for? Of course you can decide to IG and OOC crush the char and the player so they don't ever become an enemy, but that way the game will be poorer.

        Veteran chars (and I don't mean staff supported characters, but characters played for a long time) have a huge advantage over new chars, the fact that they have already positioned themselves and made contacts and have friends who they don't need to prove themselves to. That is an asset a new char can never have, but must work for. It does not mean however that a new char is less, it does not mean they should not be given a chance.

        Consequences... yes, everything has a consequence, longtimer tells to new char: you suck, I don't talk with you. This way new char has little chance to build relations. New char tells to old char: you suck, I don't talk with you. New char again gets blocked from RP. Forgiving? Why assuming the new char is the bady? (I might misunderstand your post Wende, but to me it seemed like the emphasis is on new chars messing up, while the thread kind of asked for the cooperation of old players. Should I misunderstand I would welcome a clarification and of course I apologise for misunderstanding. )

        On a positive note: you build a community with players, which means there are chars who have conflicts. It means that you OOCly have to be supportive of each other. I fully agree with Syren. IG fight and OOC support is the way to build a game, to include people and further your own player experience. Yes, encourage new characters because they are the ones who will entertain you. They are the ones you will build the game with. Use the IG advantages you have but be positive, not only new players should be positive but old players too. Remember: you were new once. And the new ones will be veterans once, if you let them.

        My 2 cents.

        Comment


        • #34
          I agree with what you say Rylana, what my issue is, is that each new character repeats the same behaviour as those who come before. For example:

          If a meta is hatched defective and misbehaves, is violent or such and another player enters the game, notes the char's behaviour and acts the same, you get a continuous chain reaction. The standards which used to be available from the older players have gone and those who remain try to uphold it and are outnumbered and outvoted.

          So the game returns to the original state it was when there was no players, apart from the fact the guiding influence of the staff played chars are no longer there. It's an empty room. So the new players, if not properly guided by the old standards, divert the game.

          What I am trying to do is to get the new players to look to the old players and see what standards they are setting. You don't have to RP the same but using the same behavioral patterns would help. I am only asking for co-operation and a willingness to change to fit the game instead of changing the game to fit you.

          Gotta love Hunter Man

          Striding along the path, rifle in my hand. My senses spreading, across this vast land. The beast inside, coming alive. Looking around, watching everything thrive. I know I can't come, to any harm. There's no need, for any alarm. I'm Hunter Man, wild and free. There's no-one else... quite like me!

          The power of One means nothing, if there are not many to appreciate it.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Wende View Post
            I was under the impression that this thread was about putting forward constructive ideas to help others know about the setting that is the Lazarus Project and staying within the theme.
            As new players, Evan and I both made reference to our experiences. I would think that kind of insight would be helpful in assessing the matter.

            People might react a certain way that is personal to them, especially with older players. Expect some history to be attached to their reactions (the good or bad ones).
            This sounds like an endorsement of anti-new player behavior, and this comes out in other aspects of the game too.

            In fact, since older players have had episodes of meeting a lot of, what we call defective Metas, at their expense, I think people are doing a good job trying to welcome most people despite the bad history they have. So let's try to remain positive, please?
            If a good job is considered causing new players to leave, I completely agree.

            In addition to that kind of criticism, I find it sad that people have gone out of their way of daily role-playing to organize things for new players to do, and it would be polite of other players to show their appreciation.
            One set of behavior does not completely eliminate past behavior. Again, this sounds like new players are being told to get over it and forget passed RP so the older characters can continue having their fun and keep their elitist attitude. No thanks.

            Also if you just started the game recently, the colony has been under a lot of pressure from the presence of an intruder and the Blackguards (These aren't typical settings).
            This is one of those "other aspects" I was talking about. Regardless of if characters are having a good time or not, players should more or less always be able to have an enjoyable experience when logging onto a game. That's why it's called a game and not real life or a job. The balance is clearly not there though. That's all well and good - it even seems like some players agree that other PLAYERS should be -punished- instead of having OOC discussions and RPing to teach the character. This ties into my next comment:

            You will not always have good experiences and your choices might not suit a lot of people.
            This is probably the only game I have ever played where the staff expects that you (as a player) should not have a good time. Of course there is a certain level of stress involved in all games, and there's usually situations that arise that cause players discomfort. This is generally something that the staff looks at and tries to come up with a way to make it more fun, or limit the situation from happening.

            If you are worried about your character's progress because of some mistakes and you are still getting used to the game, I'm sorry to say but sulking or putting posts on the forums about it might not be helpful.
            I didn't think that pointing out problems that obviously more than one new player has encountered was sulking. Obviously it's not something that is considered important enough to make note though. That's on the staff to decide I guess. Since the situations have already cost the game two or three players it might be something you should reconsider. Just a thought.

            Just remember that it's only based on your own interests and on your own abilities to role play for said job or activity.
            I don't think any of what has been discussed has anything to do with getting a job. It has more to do with players wanting to stay in the game long enough to get a job, which seems to be an actual problem. The community is not very friendly and overly reactive towards new players. For people who apparently take a game so seriously, this seems to be one of the more immature communities I have played in.

            This is, as raised before, characters coming onto the game and immediately seeking intimate relationships with "pretty girls" or attractive men. Just wanted to remind people, that's not what this game is all about.
            <snip>
            So the new players, if not properly guided by the old standards, divert the game.

            What I am trying to do is to get the new players to look to the old players and see what standards they are setting. You don't have to RP the same but using the same behavioral patterns would help. I am only asking for co-operation and a willingness to change to fit the game instead of changing the game to fit you.
            Sort of like older players trying to get new players involved in games of "Truth, Dare or Raunchy". You know, that friendly game where older characters encourage participants to take part in raunchy behavior, including characters their second day in the game. *ESPECIALLY* ones that then go on the forum and say how they're so against such things. I think the older players really need to look at themselves and what they project to find the reasons for the flaws of which they are so highly critical. This is just the tip of the iceburg on that discussion though.

            Obviously the old is not always right. Maybe if the old set the proper standards and took part in responsible behavioral patterns you'd have better results.
            Last edited by Duncan; 09-30-2008, 02:24 PM.

            Comment


            • #36
              The game changes with the people. And the best you can do is change it in a positive way. That is somewhat the responsibility of the staff, the host decides what turn the game will go.

              And teaching new players is excellent. You want to draw their attention to the behavior of the older characters (make note, not players, characters, veteran players can have new characters), excellent, you want to set pattern, great. You can do by -showing- how to behave, not by telling. Or.. how about this: someone new comes by you have seen so often and is not good, you tell him a story of a similar character that came along and ended up badly? That way you stay IG, you don't directly tell them the new char sucks, but you also encourage behavior that would be suitable. And then possibly OOC approach the person and kindly suggest possible paths to take the char toward without telling how he will simply die. Encouraging instead of chiding.

              Usually behaving in a certain manner is what makes people copy the pattern. Turning away and ignoring, I am sure, that is not the pattern you seek.

              I am not saying old chars are to blame. I say both new and old chars can do about things becoming better. But none of them alone can.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Rylana Avari View Post

                I am not saying old chars are to blame. I say both new and old chars can do about things becoming better. But none of them alone can.

                That is exactly what I was pointing at.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Duncan View Post

                  Again, this sounds like new players are being told to get over it and forget passed RP so the older characters can continue having their fun and keep their elitist attitude.
                  If it is in reference to Fionn, I find that a little harsh, considering that she does take a lot of time out of her fun time, without looking for rewards, and spends that time helping out new players and new characters alike. It seems a little harsh considering.



                  Most of the people you have met are fairly new. A few months at the most. You mentioned character assassination and I was responding to that very strong statement. That a slight is not necessarily going to ruin your chances to meet people and have fun, find a job etc and have your character grow, unless I misunderstood what you meant by assassination. I meant to say that you still have plenty of opportunities.

                  How are the players elitist? Are you saying that based on one event, people have refused to role-play with you? Feel free to page me with more detailed examples of what happened. It will be much appreciated.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Wende View Post
                    If it is in reference to Fionn...
                    I honestly have had very little interaction with Fionn, so nothing I've stated is in reference to her character/player.

                    You mentioned character assassination and I was responding to that very strong statement. That a slight is not necessarily going to ruin your chances to meet people and have fun, find a job etc and have your character grow... I meant to say that you still have plenty of opportunities.
                    While a job might still be available, fun is mostly out of the question. And why would I continue to play a game long enough to have a job if I'm not having fun before I get that job? It has more to do with the malicious, childish and immature gossip-mongering, lies and behavior of the characters that some people seem to think new players should look towards as the standard. I don't know what other people are seeing, but it's obviously a very tainted and biased view. Either that or there is a serious issue of judgement in question.

                    The game can't just be a place where the people on top have all the fun and the people at the bottom don't have any until they can hopefully get to the top.

                    How are the players elitist?
                    I'm not sure that pointing out every incident would be very constructive. The generalizations, and even some of the rather specific instances given in this thread by myself and others don't seem to be working all that well. On the other hand I have very little desire to log back into the game so maybe the next time a new player has it happen they'll be of more help.

                    Players here have constructed a very small, selective clique around themselves, of which no one can act out of without being ostricized. In fact through my RP and experiences I have found it is not something necessarily common to the 'old' it is something common to those people you pointed out as only having been here a few months. The middle ground. Even the older players/characters are squeezed out of this clique, which seems to be the catalyst for this thread.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      This is, as raised before, characters coming onto the game and immediately seeking intimate relationships with "pretty girls" or attractive men. Just wanted to remind people, that's not what this game is all about. By all means, find a relationship for your char, but it shouldn't be the first priority. In fact, you will find a lot of characters in the game already taken.
                      Ri, This has been addressed, in both an OOC and IC manner - hopefully it will make a difference.

                      Duncan, for what it is worth, I was looking forward to seeing how the tensions between Fionn and Duncan turned out. We didn't get a chance to play together a lot, but I could see some good RP coming out of the choices your character had made. Player was looking forward to seeing more from you, even if my character wanted to avoid you/not trust you. I'm sorry if you got an impression from me that made you feel different.

                      Wende, regarding the console gamers and flavor of the game - Laz and I met one the other night who got upset when it was explained to him that s/he would fit in better if s/he didn't use "l33t speak"/ internet short-hand when talking to people. Thought it was snobbish. We were only attempting to help the player fit into the comminity as player so that s/he wouldn't get a lot of negative ooc comments tossed their way. I'm not sorry about asking for a person to write in a "speaking" voice rather than 'internet IM shorthand" the shorthand would have been disruptive to the flavor of the game. Note - the occassional "ur" for 'your or you're' doesn't bother me -it would be using it and similar shorthand a lot.

                      I hope I am not elitist - I have tried to include others in the game to the best of my ability for the most part, ask around there have been people I havehired for positions that have people questioning if I was sane that day - however, I am human and if you come across me on a bad day, your first impression of me may not be what I would likke. However that is an IC issue to play out, not one I feel necessary to try and explain or hash out behind the scenes. I like Role playing. and it should be possible to RP both the good and the bad.
                      First Patient of Mendus
                      Manchester's 'Accident Prone' Patient

                      SPCade "And by we I mean Nyx"
                      PL: Fionn (Fionnghuala)
                      CM: Finella
                      ICO: Thera
                      LC: Belle Griffin


                      The Underground Starts Here!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Duncan View Post


                        It has more to do with the malicious, childish and immature gossip-mongering, lies and behavior of the characters that some people seem to think new players should look towards as the standard.
                        That is definitely not the type of things that anyone should encourage anywhere.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I (and I would say Duncan too) spoke up about our experiences because we wanted to give insight on the things that drive new people away. This kind of information is valuable for any game, isn't it? Just because I'm not sticking around, it doesn't mean I don't want the game to thrive and succeed. Nor do I want anyone to have the same bad experience as me.

                          As a new player, I got the impression (ICly and from this post) that I am insignificant. That my grievances are no matter because I am new and therefore have no understanding of the game or its theme. In terms of RP, this isn't cooperative. Rather than go on about it, I will just say that I agree with Syren's previous post wholeheartedly. OOC understanding is critical in having any type of good RP, ESPECIALLY when that RP is a conflict.

                          Originally posted by Lazarus View Post
                          Critiques are welcome too, if you think myself or staff is doing something wrong or need improvement somewhere.
                          When staff writes off constructive criticism as sulking, it's demeaning. See point above about feeling insignificant.

                          I'm not angry or bitter or sulky at anyone Just disappointed because I had high expectations. Best of luck with the game.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Fionnghuala View Post
                            Duncan, for what it is worth, I was looking forward to seeing how the tensions between Fionn and Duncan turned out.
                            I was unaware of any tension whatsoever. Beyond meeting your character initially, the only other interaction was when you were assisting a new character that I also provided with some assistance. By that time I had already given up on any sort of RP interaction with the community though, so I could have missed it.

                            That is definitely not the type of things that anyone should encourage anywhere.
                            But this is exactly the type of thing that is being encouraged, and it's done with the most condescending and arrogant "I've played longer then you, I know whats better for you and the game" mentality.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Evan View Post
                              I

                              When staff writes off constructive criticism as sulking, it's demeaning. See point above about feeling insignificant.
                              Well, on my part, I used sulking because I honestly have a limited vocabulary. I know it doesn't always look like it but writing makes me nervous and I always have the dictionary open. I didn't know it was a demeaning term. I actually learned that term from role-playing on skotos. Person sulks, "insert comment". However my post did sound upset. Not because I don't value your comments and input, but because I felt bad that amidst those comments maybe... "probably", something might discourage a player who had been giving so much to the game in manner of time and effort.
                              There is no intention to make anyone feel inferior or insignificant here, I would hope. At least there are none on my part.
                              What I do encourage, is for everyone to remember to talk to each other and remember it's story telling, so everyone should be open minded enough to work things out in the game environment. I think it should be a given that if something makes you feel bad that the person playing with you should be open to you asking either ic or oocly what their intent was. That should be good between older players as well, not just for new players.
                              Friendly reminders of why someone does something can be helpful sometimes. I know that we always use them as staff to make sure that the person entering a specific story is sure that is where they want to go.
                              Don't feel like we don't care, we do!

                              Duncan, I didn't know there was anything like it, but Fionn's post does talk about some thing that weren't appropriate that had to be addressed. Perhaps it was the same thing? Hopefully. But this is a difficult topic, because like what was said in other posts, aside from a few guidelines, what does make good role-playing in LP? Perhaps someone was trying to help you, and came off as too strong? But hopefully it wasn't a lot of people doing that to you and just one instance. Hopefully.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                That is what I was trying to clarify. Your wording indicated that new players are not welcome and I am sure that is not what you meant. Sulking is what a child does when they have the toy taken from them and they get in a corner just angrily glaring almost ready to cry. It is a childish behavior. I presume you wanted to say getting upset or disappointed.

                                I often have trouble with expressions myself

                                Do not forget however that new players are getting excited too. Old players are investing a lot, but it doesn't mean new players and characters don't. Both of their efforts should be valued. Miscommunication happens, but it means people should be ready to see things from the other perspective and get less defensive. But I still feel there is an attitude toward the old chars should get more and must be valued more. Misunderstanding? I think the most proactive chars should get the most as they are the driving force in the game and they are the ones who actually entertain. Which is cool.

                                Change is not necessarily a bad thing. It can be progress.

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