More Promotion and Misrule Thoughts (Warning: Long and Meandering)

[Gareth]

There was a night a while ago when Gareth and Duren were just made Acolytes by the Priestess -- POOF!

I hadn't been forwarned. I didn't have a clue I was going to be asked. I hadn't even been thinking that was a possibility.

But suddenly, hey, I got a meal ticket to the IB.

And, the next day, I was informed -- because of my lucky ascension -- I had to suddenly drop out of other senior positions in OB Guilds.

Yeepers!!!!

So, with rise in station, there is always seeming "luck", and some of it is good, and some bad.

But I keep hearing people keep complaining these Misrule promotions were "random" assignments.

They weren't.

If I recall correctly, the test for being talented in sorcery was (still is?) truly random -- you either had talent or you didn't. And if you were stupidly unlucky, you died in the binding. That either gave pause or rankled, because it determined immediately whether your character was toast in the program or not. However, this was part of the Castle Marrach spookiness. Cross your fingers. Leap into the void.

Sorcery. Brrr! Not for the faint of heart.

True random, stochastic probability was not the case in the Misrule selections. It was an advertized event. People knew "something" was up. Some people were hopeful. Others leery.

People cheered Radulf and Alexandrea into their offices. The crowd didn't *know* what the results of this would be. But it was a democratic election! We gave our assent to allow Radulf and Alexandrea to rule over us, and they assented to be subjected to a lot of sausage duel near-misses.

Gareth was at first being cheered to be elevated, but for various ICly reasons, turned down the spot as King of Misrule.

So the vox populi put Radulf on the throne.

Even then the Misruling Royalty didn't truly make "random" selections -- no names drawn from a hat -- they made preferential selections. It was based on who was spotted out of the corner of their eye, and likely some other influencing factors, but if they wanted to make someone who wasn't even present have an office, I was told they could have done so.

(Pardon, I make some assumptions here... I was not present, nor was I part of the SP team that put this together. Also, I am not sure exact decision-making process but regardless, it was a decision by the two of them, likely with advice from Boreas/SPs, etc.)

Okay, this wasn't Nadira or the Court of Honor, it was Radulf and Alexandrea. And yes, it was done with a lot of quick thinking. What is interesting is they elevated others to the Inner Bailey, but did not receive this benefit themselves.

But it was not a true, mathematically random "lottery" as some people imply. There indeed was a method to the madness.

I personally think there's a round of applause due to the two players who helped make some other people's IB dreams come true! They too might share some of the resulting 'drama' for their decisions in coming weeks/months. (Sir Gaudis says to Radulf, 'Oh, *you* were the King of Misrule." Sir Gaudis frowns disapprovingly. Sir Gaudis says, "Interesting.")

I like the observation this was a fairy tale. Yet some people are bent on writing it from the pen of the Brothers Grimm. (Welcome to Marrach.) Rest assured there are sufficient anti-carebear forces to rally to a banner of vengeful disapproval over all this.

If this was ICly and OOCly unsettling, consider this was not a random drawing out of a hat. People chose other people to be elevated. It was just done in a very surprising way.

As for the Feast of Fools, this was a long-held medieval European tradition. It would normally be that a boy was made bishop or lord for a day or a week, and have all the powers associated thereby. The parishoners would sing songs like donkeys and celebrate foolish mass. In some lands, it even became accused of heresy when some feasts permited fornication and devil-worshipping.

But yes, decisions made by the boy were often upheld, so they made sure that the true powers were often around to gently guide them during their office. I didn't see Boreas wave blithely and say, "Ta ta! Here's the keys to the castle! I'll be back tomorrow morning!"

Why was Gareth uncomfortable? Well, call it OOCly knowledge.

The Feast of Fools and Misrule further descended from a much much older, worldwide tradition of the wild revelling and sacrifice of the Harvest-Lord/Lady. This festival was celebrated in various cultures well into the 19th Century in India, Africa, South and North America. (Colonialism and western expansion wiped it out.)

Weaker versions of it played in Europe into the 20th Century and very tepid remnants still are celebrated in some rural places.

Someone, usually a stranger or a fool or even someone raised specifically for the purpose, would be elevated to rulership -- made chieftain, priest, king, etc. -- again, normally for a week or even a month or a season. They would be extremely well treated, fed well, adorned with clothes and jewelry, even could sleep with the king's wives...

At the end of the season, there would be a raucous festival. In a ritual, the celebrated person would be once more hailed by all -- then slaughtered, cooked, and eaten.

The person was a fool because they were kept in ignorance of their coming fate. Hah hah! Jokes on you!

Sometimes their body would be chopped up into bits, and carried to all the nearby farms and villages, to be planted in the ground to fertilize the soil. Sometimes the crowd both ate some body parts and planted other parts.

This tradition is well recounted in that seminal work of mythical and anthropological research "The Golden Bough," and many other observances from British army reports in India to traders in the Great Plains amongst the Pawnee. It is a worldwide primitive, but utterly pan-human ritual.

Not being an overly zestful pagan at heart, Gareth really worried for Radulf and Alexandrea there for a while! Especially when the cursed drinks started flowing... Player OOCly had visions of that Star Trek episode when it becomes "Festival!!!!" -- So Gareth got Avaria out of the room pronto...

Whew! Yeah... It was around Halloween.. and maybe some of us have scary thoughts like that. (:: blush blush :

Now... back to these 'random' appointments. Again, they were made by a) a vox populi elevation of a fellow denizen, who chose as his queen someone everyone else applauded -- a show of mass ICly assent -- and b) said 'elected' officials enjoyed their [limited] executive authorities and privileges by conscious assignment of other denizens to a set of specifically superfluous offices -- none of whom was a true random newly.

I agree with Nutmegger too -- had the staging of some "meritorious" promotions proceeded the foolishness, we would have a lot less communal criticism.

At least this wasn't "The Queen is a Whore!" night!

Back to introspection and my well of limited experience -- Gareth's elevation to Acolytehood was to me as "random" as what we saw in the Misrule, except Radulf was a King and Nadira was only a Priestess.

(Lighten up... that's a joke!)

The Faith was as much of a crap-shoot; it was as "random" as the Misrule selections.

There were a lot of people in the Faith Gareth seemed to poof past. He had been a Seeker for only 55 days when he was made Acolyte! (Eben was made A-N after 22 days awoken.)

Hmm. Might there have been ICly reasons? Or was it pure dumb luck of favoritism? Nadira saying "I like him/her!" Gareth had even studiously avoided meetings with the Priestess present and still got the nod!

Hmm... "merit" or "achievement" -- Duren was an --ahem-- interesting choice to many minds -- to be put in the Inner Bailey. And Kemuel...? :: scratches head :: Has he been back to the Inner Bailey other than the one time?

Merit or social experimentation? Or is this as explicable as how Zia chooses who she makes jewelry for? So much for 'meritocracy' and 'hard work.'

People keep on complaining there's not 'conflict' in the game. Here's your chance: some people got promoted. You didn't. Now what kind of inner strength does your character (and you) have?

Some people have had tough lives ICly. Yes. Some people have lost station. Yes. Some people work hard. Yes.

Jealousy? Anger? Feeling betrayed? Shocked? Isn't this part of pathos and passion?

Is it going to turn into an ICly witch-hunt? Will we, like in the Golden Bough, figuratively slaughter and eat these 'fatted' individuals alive?

Or is this a chance to turn to people who used to be your best buds yesterday, or people you were deeply ambivalent towards, and now can suck up to for juicy gossip and maybe a sambocade or two for a special occasion?

Gareth's got ICly reasons why he's standing firm on these new people's sides -- either from prior friendship or other reasons I won't go into here. But it's not just a "care bears" sentimentality.

Others most likely want to tear these upstarts eyes out. (:: watches Santlar sharpening her nails... :

The vehemence and interest in this thread shows there is a lot of energy pent up around the entire concept of promotions waiting to volcano forth at the slightest.

Isn't that fuel for some IC conflict and OOC reflection?

-Pete.

p.s. Oh yeah... btw: Here's the secret to rapid rise in station. To become an Acolyte -- I had to eat a bug!

[Destini477]

I am biting my tongue, I am not going to say everything I feel and want to, I will just say, that this is just one more reason for me to leave CM. Destini lost everything for a OOC problem and had to RP it IC and be killed. , and now she is being punished for something that was not her fault IC or OOC, and has to start over, because of someone else's mistake? And now, poof, others are promoted out of the blue.....or as you say it is not totally random.............part of some deep secret plot? I pay to play this game......as does everyone.......I put alot of time and work into Destini, and it was all ruined......and not by her, or me, not by anything she did at all, but by others mixing OOC and IC, and now she has to watch certain chac and players, who made her lose it all get promoted? I think that is just a bit to much to ask....for anyone. If she had lost everything because of something she did IC , I could accept that and go on, but she did nothing.....and niether did I, yet she has to start over while the ones who caused it get status and rewarded for it? No, thank you, something is off here.......... I will stop here and save the rest for CE. Karen

[Dariel]

I'd like to elaborate on Gareth's comment about Sorcery a bit.

When I learned that who was talented and who was not was indeed figured out at random, I was mildly shocked. Some people might probably 'deserve' being talented, others might find additional roleplaying opportunity in either solution. Who knows, being found untalented might offer a healthy dose of drama...

True, you cannot link it to the memories, because once people figured that out, they'd make characters with certain memories to assure their Sorcerers are talented. It doesn't happen, you say? Honestly, I have reason to believe exactly this has happened with the memory relating to Eme, and other languages. Of course, I can't prove anything, so I won't go further.

Also, you shouldn't probably leave the decision up to one person, because there will always be opposing voices. Personally, I'd say "just ask the player what he'd like", but very probably, several people would scream bloody murder at that. Not everybody is trusted to decide for the game, and not for themselves, and that's probably a good thing.

I admit, it's a tricky situation, but I still don't like this randomness either. Why can't they get Elea's player and a few SPs in one room with the Sorcerer to be bound and talk about possible outcomes... it might even be a classical way for a player to get out. Death by Binding.

I've talked this issue through with several people, and another nice suggestion that came up was the following: Make all characters talented at first. Explain it as a magical supercharge if you like, a remnant of the Binding. Then watch how they evolve, how they change. At some time, declare the supercharge as fading and make out who's talented and who's not after you got to watch this worst case scenario.

Once again, just a few random meringues thrown onto the bonfire of vanity... or something along those lines...

I'm starting to sound like Kyle...

Which is not necessarily a bad thing...


Have a nice day.

[Santlar]

Destini,

I agree with you completely about ooc crossover into IC behavior. It is never excusable in my book. People might say that it isn't possible to completely separate IC and OOC. Prometheus himself may come on and excuse certain lower degrees of ooc crossover. To all those incorrect people I would just say: Nope! But thanks for playing! Better luck next time!

And I can also understand why the events at the Feast may have added insult to injury in your situation. However....

Don't let the prior wrong done you blow the events of Friday night out of proportion. I don't know what is going to happen myself, but I think that after the week is out, people will see those events in a different light. To the best of my knowledge there was absolutely no ooc crossover during those events, so lets just let the week play out and then see what we can see.

[Ra'Dorcha]

Originally posted by Dariel - I admit, it's a tricky situation, but I still don't like this randomness either. Why can't they get Elea's player and a few SPs in one room with the Sorcerer to be bound and talk about possible outcomes... it might even be a classical way for a player to get out. Death by Binding.

I don't understand this? I thought the classes were pretty clear on the possible outcomes, but they've been pretty clear on the fact that most, if not all the hopefuls won't be talented.


Originally posted by Dariel - I've talked this issue through with several people, and another nice suggestion that came up was the following: Make all characters talented at first.

You understand the concept of rarity of magic, right? 1-in-4 who make it to the binding. Last I checked, there were about 6 of us to be bound. That means 1 or 2 will probably be talented. Even then it's possible none of us are.

Maybe it'll be more obvious over time. Once there are bindings to again show how difficult it is to become talented. Not that I think it personally matters cause very few people care about sorcery enough to make it worth coding skills. And nobody wants sorcery without skills.

But that's just my personal opinion.
Ra'

[Dariel]

Uhm... why do I have a feeling nobody is reading my posts / people are reading what they want to read?

Did I ever imply I wanted to fidget with the proportions? No, I just said the way talent is determined sucks, because it's totally random.

Period.


Have a nice day.

[Destini477]

I am not saying there was any mixing of OOC and IC at the feast, in fact Destini left right after the King and Queen were
picked.........what I am saying and upset about is that promotons were given to certain chac, who were in fact the very ones that caused Destini's plight...by all the OOC things that were said and brought into the game.....she is ruined and they now have a title.....she was punished for something they did to her......and they get rewarded with a promotion! Karen

[Santlar]

Dariel....there is a thread that was started by Ghobii after the last round of bindings in which Jeff Crook, Sam W, Cedric, myself...and many others went into a very lengthy discusion of the Magic system. As I remember...Cedric had an idea that was very much to Jeff Crook's and my likings....you may want to dig through the forum and find that thread. Interesting stuff. If it wasn't lost in the transition to the new BB system.

[Santlar]

Its still there: Untalented Mages http://forum.skotos.net/showthread.p...eferrerid=1082

[SPXios]

Originally posted by Gareth
[whole bunch of stuff]

We need to get you a whole forum for yourself Peter.

And, the next day, I was informed -- because of my lucky ascension -- I had to suddenly drop out of other senior positions in OB Guilds.

Requirements to leave OB guilds is something people should look into. It will differ from job to job. There will be more and more things to do in the IB. Not all positions require you dump what you are doing in the OB. Just don't expect Lady FancyPants to give you the time of day after she hears you are still hanging out with the unwashed masses. After all, she's heard what happens in the OB Baths. It sure ain't bathing. But on a whole, you won't be expected to just drop everything you are doing. It takes time to find replacements.

But I keep hearing people keep complaining these Misrule promotions were "random" assignments.

They weren't.

True random, stochastic probability was not the case in the Misrule selections. It was an advertized event. People knew "something" was up. Some people were hopeful. Others leery.

People cheered Radulf and Alexandrea into their offices. The crowd didn't *know* what the results of this would be. But it was a democratic election! We gave our assent to allow Radulf and Alexandrea to rule over us, and they assented to be subjected to a lot of sausage duel near-misses.

Even then the Misruling Royalty didn't truly make "random" selections -- no names drawn from a hat -- they made preferential selections. It was based on who was spotted out of the corner of their eye, and likely some other influencing factors, but if they wanted to make someone who wasn't even present have an office, I was told they could have done so.

Thank You. You worded what happened much better than I could have.

[StoryGuide Marath]

Destini, if you are upset about someone using OOC info against you IC, did you consider contacting the OOC staff of the game to work through it? Either by emailing CE, filing an assist, or paging a storyhost or guide. Its very hard to force help down people's throats if they don't ask for it.

StoryGuide Marath

[Destini477]

Yes, in fact I did, I sent e-mails to several people and from one
I got no reply and from another.....was basically told , that ICly
Destini did not chose to die, but OOC I made the choice. It was the only choice I could make, and I had to have a memory loss
in order to be able to put all the OOC mess behind. However, the loss of complete memory was not long, thanks to many sessions and hard work on Destini's part. I was also told that "Admittedly, the question of oaths after death is somewhat obscure at the moment, though we are working on determining a firm set of guide lines" And there have been chac who have died and came back with memory loss and got their postions back.......all I want to know is why wasn't I allowed to? Why are there two sets of rules? I did not make the mess Destini got in, it was done to her OOC yet, and I did the only thing I could see to save her and the others who made the problem in the first palce, and I am the one that ends up being .........ruined. Karen

[StoryGuide Marath]

Destini - why don't you contact me off the forums, since nothing will get resolved here. PM, or even better would be in game. We can talk then, and you can tell me which storyguides you talked to.

StoryGuide Marath

[SPXios]

Each group makes it's own rules for what happens to you when you are re-awakened. The truth of the matter is, you should be in the exact same state as when you first created the character. Some groups decide to bend that and allow people back in much easier than they would a new character.

Considering how harsh the Healer's are in terms of affiliations (only matched by the chroniclers), I'm not surprised that they wanted you to start at the begining. They make people drop every other guild or group they belong to. Heck, sorcery doesn't even do that. If nothing else, you can remain in the Faith (see Santlar). I imagine there will never be set in stone rules which every group follows. And that is because each group is different.

I'm not familiar with the Healers, so I can't comment much on your specific situation.

[StaciD]

I prefer not to discuss players private issues in the public forums, but because Destini has been so vocal in her complaints I think it is necessary this time.

I don't know the details of the OOC/IC crossover situation that Destini has described. That sort of problem belongs to the StoryGuides and CE, and while I will happily consult to help smooth out the IC side of things, I'm not the person to pursue such a matter. Destini did ask me if I would help her character die, and though I advised against it, she decided to do it anyway.

Destini was warned that she would loose skills when she died. Her expressed purpose in dying was so that she could loose all her memories and start with a fresh slate in the game. I ask you, as have asked Destini herself, who wants a healer who has no skills and no memory? That seems a bit risky if you ask me, and I have no complaint with Anabeth's choice not immediately restoring Destini to her position. Unlike nearly every other position in the castle, Healers positions are entirely reliant on their skills. If Anabeth, or Severin, or even Doctor Mielyr himself were to die and be rewoken in similar circumstances -- no skills and no memories -- I'm sure there would be some delay before they were able to resume their post, if they even could.

In short, Destini wanted to have her cake and eat it too: to get all the percieved benefits of death and the ensuing memory loss, but without paying any of the consequences for choosing that death.

But we don't like players to feel punished, especially when their are extunuating circumstances, and so Anabeth and I reached a compromise whereby Destini would be allowed to retake her oath. The only thing required of Destini was a little patience: ICly because it only makes sense to give time to make sure Destini is stable after such a trauma, and OOCly because getting Mielyr out to administer the oath can be tricky. Destini would have been sworn in with the new students whom Anabeth is currently recruiting, probably before the end of this month.

Since that time, Anabeth has infromed me that ICly she has reconsidered her stance on reswearing Destini to the healers, but this has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Destini died. If Destini would care to log into the game some time, instead of railing at it from the sidelines, I'll be happy to discuss those reasons with her, and see if we can't find someway to satisfy both she and Anabeth. (I have, in fact, been waiting to do since I last talked with Anabeth, perhaps a week ago.)

The bottom line, though, is that death doesn't absolve you of your actions while you were alive. Even if you don't remember what you did, you might still have to suffer the consequences. Otherwise, we'd have people committing heinous crimes and then arranging their own deaths just so they could avoid harsher punishment.

Conversely, one driving principle in the castle has been "death breaks all bonds". Exactly how far this goes is an issue very much on the StoryPlotters' minds right now, and I hope to have some general guidelines for people in the week following the Estrella festival. Do keep in mind that it's the sort of thing that is hard to regulate, and that very likely outcomes will vary on a case-by-case basis.

Finally, before anyone begins posting repeatedly in the forums about getting unfair treatment, please make sure you've exhausted all other means of resolving your problem. Right now, the SP staff is maxed out with Estrella-related issues, and ergo some more individual issues are getting inadvertantly sidelined. Repetitve, public rants like this do absolutely nothing to contribute to the castle but raise the hackles of the staff and make us silently wish you'd follow through on your declaration that you're leaving (and I mean you in a general sense, not any one person in particular). No, we really don't want anyone to leave. But give us a break, we're doing everything we can to make the game satisfying for as many people as possible. Being publically attacked isn't going to endear your cause to us.

If you care about the game (and you must, or you would have walked away without comment), you should realize that these public attacks are damaging to it. You would do much better to calmly page or email the staff and calmly state "I really need your help RIGHT NOW with this problem." I promise you, we will do our best to accomodate you and figure out an agreeable solution for all involved. If YOU can act reasonably, so will we.