Royal Court?

[Euphelia]

I understand that others have lamented on the lack of Royal Courts this year. Since the beginning of 2006, there have been two Royal Courts; one in January and one in July. That is seven months apart.

Some people are in positions where they cannot advance without being granted the positions they are working for without acheiving advancement intrinsically. And I have also heard of cases where intrinsic rank was granted to people outside of Royal Court so that they may continue in their field. I am not in a position where that can be handed to me.

Grand changes in position such as that of the Royal Provost, Lord Marshal and Captain of the Royal Guard have always occurred previously at Royal Courts. Certainly the circumstances surrounding these promotions was unusual, but why was it not handled as it would have been in the past - where the title would have been granted provisionally until the next Royal Court?

I understand that staff members are busy, but seven months apart is a rather large departure from the literature maintained about Royal Courts by the staff themselves. Further, I am concerned as a player about the promotions happening outside of Court; I personally believe that if this becomes the norm, Royal Courts will continue to decrease in frequency.

I obviously have a rather large stake in this personally. Euphelia's hopes and dreams and almost all of her effort goes into the Royal Collegium and her hopes to advance therein. However, it has been made clear to her In Character that there will be no provisional promotions without the status of Honoured Guest. However, I believe that even were this not the case - even if Dittersdorf would allow a non-Honoured Guest promotion, even if I were already Honoured Guest and it was not an issue, or even if I was not part of the Royal Collegium, as a player I would be concerned about the length of time between Royal Courts.

Royal Courts are the way the large promotions and intrinsic promotions that are so important to the social structure of the game are supposed to happen. Without them, we should be at a standstill, we should be stagnating, we should be 'stuck in the mud.' I do not see any real effort of resolution towards this, just short cuts that benefit the few but do nothing to help others.

I apologise if my concern causes any distress amongst the staff of the game or fellow players as this was not my intent. I in no way believe the staff is shirking - I just believe that in many cases, time goes by quickly when you're having fun.

[Sindale]

I like to think that something happening out of the ordinary is building a story. If all promotions only ever occurred at Courts, it would become a little boring. The suddenness of it all, the elevations etc made good talking points and much RP. Good on everyone involved. No need to wait for the Royal Court for something to happen. The again, maybe something will happen at Court to twist it even further. Certainly increases the options.

I believe this limitation in thought, that promotions must occur at Royal Courts, begins to limit the stories that can be created. No such limits should exist in my opinion. I do agree in making them the exception rather than the norm though.

I also understand about the concern of the few Royal Courts held this year. Heck, Sin has a large stake in the next one, so bring it on. I have heard a rumour one is being planned soon though, so wait out.

Trev

[Pohewa]

One of the big delays for this Royal Court is my fault as I'm running on my 6th week without internet and still have 2 weeks to go with luck.

Royal Court is planned though now that I have a timeframe upon my return to the game, and it'll be announced IC'ly soon.

Yes, it's been too long since the last Royal Court, but fact is we're understaffed on all areas and there's simply not been time to plan and excecute one with all that's been going on IC, OOC and R/L related for a lot of the people involved.

I apologize that I've this time been the main reason for the delay.

Cheers!

[Priam]

It seems odd that in a system so built on stasis and tradition, the people supposedly maintaining it - and the one with the largest stake in the stasis - would break out of it in such huge ways. The promotions and demotions could have been handled outside of court, yes, but like Euphelia's player says, the promotions could have been provisional, to be "confirmed" at the next court (which is indeed in keeping with established tradition).

[hollydragon]

Royal Courts used to have proper audiences where questions could be directed at the Queen.

That died out. I only remember one occasion in the planning of a court where we were told the Queen may go off to a side room to take questions - instead of just being in the main hall as per the original audiences, which is better for general RP and gossip, but doesn't allow for more private questions. I don't remember it actually happening.

I've heard players of Knights complain that the Queen has such limited times that she can't even be 'booked' to talk to her own Knighthood. Reintroducing audiences would help ease that problem.

Just read the royal court books in the IB library for the style of older courts.

The concept of audiences have appeared in quite a lot of fiction I've encountered. It's the idea of the head of an area being available to all to hear their concerns and deliberate over their problems.

From what I could see of the early logs, there were never many questions asked anyway, it was all very respectful and it was no inconvenience to anyone involved.

[Geist]

We are very aware of the gap between Courts, as well as the pros and cons of various formats of Court and Court-like functions. This is all discussed often among staff, and as Pohewa said you'll be hearing an announcement about an impending Court very very shortly and associated with that, though probably at that Court, some information about changes in format and procedure designed to address some of the issue brought about by previous posters, and other.

[Geist]

Originally Posted by Euphelia

I understand that others have lamented on the lack of Royal Courts this year. Since the beginning of 2006, there have been two Royal Courts; one in January and one in July. That is seven months apart.

Yup, we know. They should be occurring more frequently, and our hope is that they will be, within our ability to schedule them.

Originally Posted by Euphelia

Some people are in positions where they cannot advance without being granted the positions they are working for without acheiving advancement intrinsically. And I have also heard of cases where intrinsic rank was granted to people outside of Royal Court so that they may continue in their field. I am not in a position where that can be handed to me.

As stated previously, at next Court we will be announcing some procedural changes that will hopefully help this issue, and others.

Originally Posted by Euphelia

Grand changes in position such as that of the Royal Provost, Lord Marshal and Captain of the Royal Guard have always occurred previously at Royal Courts. Certainly the circumstances surrounding these promotions was unusual, but why was it not handled as it would have been in the past - where the title would have been granted provisionally until the next Royal Court?

It was stated, though not necessarily within earshot of anyone who chose to pass it on, that these positions were to be confirmed by Her Majesty at the next Court.

Originally Posted by Euphelia

I understand that staff members are busy, but seven months apart is a rather large departure from the literature maintained about Royal Courts by the staff themselves. Further, I am concerned as a player about the promotions happening outside of Court; I personally believe that if this becomes the norm, Royal Courts will continue to decrease in frequency.

There is no relationship between the two.

[John]

As a side note, some people have viewed the lack if court and lack of access to the queen as an IG thing. Aka someone is working to keep the day to day away from the queen. Now it may be becouse of OOC matters but viewing current events, the pop promotions, the shifts in power, ect, it does kinda fit IG as well.
Just my 2 cents

[Geist]

You are absolutely right. There there's no question that some of this is because of scheduling issues, there are things going on IC that are resulting in similar-appearing symptoms. Good point.

That said, if something is due to OOC reasons we try and be good about letting people know that is the reason. Otherwise, assuming things are occurring for IC reasons until you hear otherwise is always the best course... but feel free to check with us.

[Lucus]

Originally Posted by hollydragon

I've heard players of Knights complain that the Queen has such limited times that she can't even be 'booked' to talk to her own Knighthood.

Yep.

Lucus went around looking into this awhile after he was Knighted, because he himself never saw any of Her. Less than half the PC Knights have even met their Queen ('met' meaning actually stopped and spoken with Her, not just seen Her in passing or during a Royal Court). Lucus himself was sent off to book an appointment with Her handmaidens (because we really have a lot of those actively online these days ) when he tried to meet with Her about important matters related to castle security. She was preoccupied having tea with a Page.

I've been working to try and fix this, but so far I've not had much luck. I obviously can't meet Her directly about it, and haven't had much luck through Alrik either. Launfal's next on my list.

[Priam]

Originally Posted by Lucus

She was preoccupied having tea with a Page.

"Qu'ils mangent de la brioche," anyone?

*scratches out Vivat regina*

[Euphelia]

First, thank you everyone who replied. Some comments I wish to address:

Originally Posted by Sindale

I like to think that something happening out of the ordinary is building a story. If all promotions only ever occurred at Courts, it would become a little boring. The suddenness of it all, the elevations etc made good talking points and much RP. Good on everyone involved. No need to wait for the Royal Court for something to happen.

....

I believe this limitation in thought, that promotions must occur at Royal Courts, begins to limit the stories that can be created. No such limits should exist in my opinion. I do agree in making them the exception rather than the norm though.

I understand what you are saying, and I agree to a certain extent. However, I believe that any extreme - either in complete deviation from Royal Court and there being several out of Court promotions OR there being NO out of Court promotions - are negative occurences which affect the game. I agree with you in that sudden changes should be the exception rather than the rule. However, Priam's post essentially sums up my feelings exact:

Originally Posted by Priam

It seems odd that in a system so built on stasis and tradition, the people supposedly maintaining it - and the one with the largest stake in the stasis - would break out of it in such huge ways. The promotions and demotions could have been handled outside of court, yes, but like Euphelia's player says, the promotions could have been provisional, to be "confirmed" at the next court (which is indeed in keeping with established tradition).

I just feel that in a Castle where tradition is upheld and maintained in so many ways that this spate of Honoured Guest promotion and the promotions in regards to Provost and Lord Marshal are extremely Out of Character for the Court in my view.

First - I cannot say with absolute certainty of the honoured guest promotions being accurate, but to the understanding of the two players in mind, they were granted Honoured Guest for the duration of their duties in their new job position OR until they were named such at Royal Court. If their perception is true, then this is a rather painful deviance from previous 'provisional' positions, such as that as Stix as Master Herald without being Knighted.

Umichan was named as Acting Captain of the Royal Guard when it became obvious that Darvius was not playing any longer. This changed at the next Royal Court when she was named full Captain, but until that Court, it was ACTING - a provisional title was awarded to her until the proper time to have it given with all pomp and circumstance could be afforded.

Originally Posted by hollydragon

Royal Courts used to have proper audiences where questions could be directed at the Queen.

That died out. I only remember one occasion in the planning of a court where we were told the Queen may go off to a side room to take questions - instead of just being in the main hall as per the original audiences, which is better for general RP and gossip, but doesn't allow for more private questions. I don't remember it actually happening.

This is also something that I miss as a player, even though it was before the time where I was able to participate in Royal Courts. The idea of being able to speak privately with the Queen for but a moment about any problem that could not be resolved was an amazing sort of privilege that came with Honoured Guest status. I have a character who would have eagerly taken a chance to speak with Her Majesty to right some percepted wrongs made against herself, except that after viewing the way the Court regarded Hannah after Hannah took this route - well, it was rather cowing. The public humiliation was hardly something my alt wanted to add to her stained reputation.

Originally Posted by Geist

...and associated with that, though probably at that Court, some information about changes in format and procedure designed to address some of the issue brought about by previous posters, and other.

I have heard this before, except that time in specific it was from Xios. I was noting about how Chronicles were no longer to be read at Court. I recall mentioning it to Jerisa and she sounded shocked that it actually had really happened, and that it was considered part of the duty of a Chronicler. At least, I believe it was Jerisa. I am certain she will correct me if I recall wrong.

What Xios noted is that Royal Courts came too far apart and that there needed to be a way to have intrinsic promotions outside of Royal Court, so at least that when there were Royal Courts, there weren't 80 promotions per Court. Then perhaps there would be time for the reading of Chronicles and other things that could happen at Court.

Geist, I am certain you can understand that while there may be in reality no connection between the Out of Court promotions and the lack of Royal Courts, it would be disturbing to those who are not in possession of the information you have? I've been pondering how to write this post for at least a month now.

Again, I believe it is very important to note that I mean no offense by stating what I've said. I know sometimes people take my views and the way I express them the wrong way. I'm trying very hard to explain myself clearly and in a way that is not confrontational.

Pohewa, I look forward to seeing you in the game again. I wasn't aware you weren't able to access at the moment.

Thank you to all staff who took the time to answer my concerns, it is appreciated.

[Geist]

Originally Posted by Euphelia

I just feel that in a Castle where tradition is upheld and maintained in so many ways that this spate of Honoured Guest promotion and the promotions in regards to Provost and Lord Marshal are extremely Out of Character for the Court in my view.

I think there is a functional misunderstanding. I don't want to get into too much IC information here, but the appointment to Lord Marshal and Royal Provost occured when they did because Sir Alrik chose to resign when he did, rather than wait for it to happen as the Lord Chancellor had arranged. It happened suddenly, and Boreas announced the promotions to Lord Marshal and Royal Provost, which had already been approved by the Queen, but not - as I said previously - confirmed. This means that though the words are not being used, they are for all intents and purposes acting positions since they have not been confirmed. Consider the fact that "Acting" isn't being used more as a statement about Boreas throwing his weight around with regard to "his" appointment of the positions. The fact remains, until the Queen acknowledges them at Court they are "acting" positions.

Originally Posted by Euphelia

First - I cannot say with absolute certainty of the honoured guest promotions being accurate, but to the understanding of the two players in mind, they were granted Honoured Guest for the duration of their duties in their new job position OR until they were named such at Royal Court. If their perception is true, then this is a rather painful deviance from previous 'provisional' positions, such as that as Stix as Master Herald without being Knighted.

They may have been granted access to the Inner, but they are not Honored Guests until they receive the promotion officially. Bottom line. In some cases what has been said was "OK, you've got the position but if you don't attain Honored Guest at the next Court, you're out." They're not Honored Guests until recognized as such.

Originally Posted by Euphelia

I have a character who would have eagerly taken a chance to speak with Her Majesty to right some percepted wrongs made against herself, except that after viewing the way the Court regarded Hannah after Hannah took this route - well, it was rather cowing. The public humiliation was hardly something my alt wanted to add to her stained reputation.

That situation wasn't as simple as you portray it. There was a reason the public reactions were as they were. That said, I think one does have to weigh the appropriateness of what brings up in Court. Some things are best to be addressed in open Court, and some things not. It is all politics, after all.

Originally Posted by Euphelia

Geist, I am certain you can understand that while there may be in reality no connection between the Out of Court promotions and the lack of Royal Courts, it would be disturbing to those who are not in possession of the information you have? I've been pondering how to write this post for at least a month now.

Again, I believe it is very important to note that I mean no offense by stating what I've said. I know sometimes people take my views and the way I express them the wrong way. I'm trying very hard to explain myself clearly and in a way that is not confrontational.

We're talking about a circumstance that has never occured before since the game story went live... but I warn you that the game is moving into a period of story where almost anything can happen. Characters, and players, are just going to have to roll with those punches because things will change suddenly and abruptly.

What I would encourage in the future is to just simply ask, straight-forwardly, if something is now a particular way or if it has changed permanently instead of assuming it has and presenting a lengthy discourse on why this is bad...even when you acknowledge it may not in fact be that way. Find out if it is the way you fear it is first, then present your concerns. Don't ponder it for a month - just ask the question. I'm glad, however, you presented it civilly and non-confrontationally, Very glad.

[Priam]

Originally Posted by Geist

They may have been granted access to the Inner, but they are not Honored Guests until they receive the promotion officially. Bottom line. In some cases what has been said was "OK, you've got the position but if you don't attain Honored Guest at the next Court, you're out." They're not Honored Guests until recognized as such.

Been there, yeah. "You have until next court to become an honored guest or you'll lose your chance for this position. And don't expect me to sponsor you, either." As long as they follow through with the ultimatum, it's cool.

[Janwin]

Personally, I'm hoping there -isn't- a Court soon. As is my character. With all those people suddenly flocking into the Inner all at once for Court, the floor of the Bridge will fall out. Sooo, let's get the Bridge fixed first. ;0)