The Difference Between IC Knowledge and OOC Knowledge

[Bgman377]

Hey there, local lurker here who's recently returned.

I've been thinking on a few things lately and I was curious about what other people thought on the matter.

The difference between IC knowledge and OOC knowledge.

Do you think it is OK to request that if you OOCly do not remember something your character should remember you can ask other players OOCly about it again? I've run into this, and I was curious about what other people thought about just an OOC reminder about some IC information that your character *should* remember, like for example: if you have opened a secret passage before, or say, you were told something but just forget some minute details, and you just ask for a quick reminder of syntax or those fine details?

Should you tell the player this information if you know, or should you say "if you don't remember OOCly, you don't remember ICly'?

I'm impartial to either choice, because I am sorta interested on what people think of the IC-OOC barrier between information, if there exists any sort of thing.

[Lucus]

I think it depends on the sitation.

Something like, for example, oaths that your character has sworn, but the player didn't bother to memorize word-for-word, I think it's fair game to ask. Something like secret passages however, if the player can't remember it OOCly, I think it's fair to say the character couldn't remember which brick to slide in which direction, etc.

There's no right answer to your question, it comes down to matter of opinion, I think.


- Lin

[AleysiaForsyth]

I don't think that it's necessarily a big problem to ask for little hints OOCly, but like Lin said, it depends on the situation. For example, I'm not going to page him and ask "How do I get through the passages?" without having ever done it ICly.

But, it some situations it could be warranted. Having played a character who previously spent considerable time wandering some of those passages, it would make sense that she would know them... Alas, I as a player having not played for some time, do not remember. But, I'm not going to fault someone for not wanting to reveal that information OOCly. (though in some cases, that can be a big OOC roadblock to moving things forward.)

[Priam]

Keep notes, people.

I don't even assume I know someone's name. (Part of why people had to keep re-introducing themselves to Priam, if he'd met them after like 2005. IC, I said it was the 6-7 deaths ...)


Depending on the character, I may use my logs to recall minute details. My other main, for instance, has eidetic memory - none of my other characters do, so even if I do look something up from logs with them, I mix it up; similarly, I'd always look up the Capitulary to quote it, but Priam would "re-phrase" it - saying the same thing, but with different word order or some words changed.


Asking other players for cues - "Hey, can you remind me about our characters' last meeting?" is fine. Asking other players for information - "Hey, how do you open this secret door again?" is not okay. Use @remember and @recall for critical information like that. I would and will never tell anyone how to use a secret door or the like OOCly. If they were told, they should've written it up.


It's very situational, and needs to be judged on a case-by-case basis. If you suspect someone's fishing out information using "forgetting" as an excuse, file an assist immediately, and let a StoryGuide sort it out.

[Eloire]

Personally, I'd love to see a moment where someone fumbles with a torch, muttering about how they could have sworn it was a simple twist of the wrist to the left or what have you, and the "helpful reminder" comes in characterly from a fellow conspirator "No, no. Do you ~want~ to die of poison? You push and then twist to the right!" Besides, if it looks like they might know a thing or two and you fall for it and actually show them for ~their~ first time, having made an IC assumption? There can be consequences down the road.

I'd say, if you forgot, your character forgot. If it was important, @remember it to @recall later. If you can create an IC conversation to regain that information, it will likely be more valuable the second time around and therefore, more memorable. How to craft something or duel and you forgot commands? Ask. Now, conversations? Sure the @ooc "Hey, we did say Burgundy on that cape, right?" is one thing, although just as easily asked ICly unless your character is supposed to have flawless memory. How to get to Secret chamber 007 is another story, and I'd hope a purely IC one.

[Kitra]

*waves*
I can't keep loggs of every conversation Kitra has no way is my computer going to handle that much data.
If Kitra was invited to something or is suppose to remember something I try to keep notes on it oocly. Unfortuantely I can't always keep track of what she's doing, so I politely ask to page remind me.
I have a lot of times logged in and completely forget what I was suppose to do three hours before the actual what ever it is, is suppose to take place so I log off can forget completely, or sometimes I log in on the wrong day because I scheduled it on my RL schedule for the wrong week.
And no its not an excuse but its the reason why I ask sometimes to remind me through page.
~Kitra's Player

[AleysiaForsyth]

Well, I *had* pretty good logs, but I haven't played for the last two years, and my computer has suffered a couple meltdowns since then (unfortunately, one of them being severe enough that I didn't have time to back up my files.)

[Priam]

Originally Posted by Eloire

Personally, I'd love to see a moment where someone fumbles with a torch

I've seen people do that half several times - they both died of poisoning soon after...

Incidentally, having logged every single moment with every single character since Oct or Nov 2002, I currently have 360+ Mb of log (2700+ files) for the 5 characters on my roster (210 Mb and ~1200 of those are for Priam, my oldest character).

Again, for critical information (how to enter the Under Bailey, whatever), use @remember and @recall, or a specific record file - my characters have a bunch of critical information in their @recalls, and I have a .rtf file with more for each of them (including lists of people they've met and the impression they've left for 3 of my characters).

[AleysiaForsyth]

So to summarize the gist of the sentiments of this thread, if for whatever reason you OOCly forget something, it's OK to get some help jogging your memory, unless it specifically involves the Under? Why the double standard?

Please don't take this the wrong way. Should I find my characters needing to go there, I'm more than happy to try and find my way there ICly, because to me it's about the journey, not the end. I'm just more and more sensing this obvious double standard when it comes to what is appropriate to get OOC hints on, and I'm not quite sure why. People that know me and RP with my characters know I very rarely, if ever ask for OOC hints.

[Priam]

Originally Posted by AleysiaForsyth

So to summarize the gist of the sentiments of this thread, if for whatever reason you OOCly forget something, it's OK to get some help jogging your memory, unless it specifically involves the Under? Why the double standard?

Nope. I also wouldn't tell anyone, OOC, how to open any of the secret doors or the like in the OB or IB; how to open the opal archway (from or into the OB or IB); details of, say, the Royal suites, or items held therein; details of an event like Lord Mirshan's death, and who were involved... and so on.

I would tell someone, say, what color Priam's hair was again, if he's tall or not... what color Gareth's hair is... what the Knightly virtues are... and so on.

There's no double standard - the UB triggers are just the most extreme example of critical and secret information. If you're too lazy to @remember them, that's your problem. It only takes the typing of one sentence in-game, or using WordPad or NotePad.

[Natasha]

Having Natasha come back after three years was hard. Basically I just had her relearn everything. But...main point of my post. There is a handy @remember command which stores everything for your character on skotos space. Plus you can organize it in easy to find ways. I find it's really really helpful, especially if you dont want to sound like you're cheating. For instance one of my characters saw a criminal, but there was no reason she would know who they were. So I just @remembered their description so she could describe them rather than say "I think it was so and so" even though she wouldn't have any idea!